George Lazar wrote:

>>I think the economy would do better with a small amount of foreign
>>investment, and the freedom of the people to make their lives better
>>through their own initiative......hi-tech would not allow this since it


>Your approach to the economy might have worked in the last
>century, unfortunately it does't work today....
>It'd be really cute to see small manufacturing operations
>popping up everywhere in Hungary, the trouble is that today
>you'll have a hard time to find a product which can be manufactured
>cheaper in Hungary than importing it from China, Korea..etc. Of course,

In the US and Russia (to take 2 economies with extremely different levels of
 development)
small business is the largest producer of new jobs.  Granted. in russia most
companies are substantially foreign owned by small investors, but there are a
substantial number of russian people, mostly ex government officials (which
 makes
you want to know where they got the money), who are starting small businesses.
And this is happening today.

A similar situation developed in Japan after WWII.  For example, most or all
 small parts
in Japanese cars are made by sub-contractors, who are usually mom & pop
 operation, which
include machine shops where the whole family works, as well as simple assembly
contractors who assembly components from parts supplied by the auto
 manufacturer.

If foreign investment was structured in such a way that it was attractive for
 large
companies to use subcontractors and small manufacturers, this would have the
 most
benefitial impact on the economy.  There is no reason that an engineer at an ol
d
soviet truck/bus/train factory (or whatever the Russian built in Hungary)
 wouldn't
use his experience to start his own company. This is how it has happened in the
 US
when an experienced and skilled person is layed-off today.  I think such people
 in
Hungary would jump at the chance to built a company.

Paul Gelencser

Next week, many Christians will start their pre-Easter 40 day Fast .

Shrove Tuesday - Hushagyokedd    Febr. 28th
Ash Wednesday  - Hamvazoszerda   March 1st.

Shrove Tuesday is the last day of the Carnival Season (Farsang).
It is celebrated many different ways, one of the best known of those is
the 'Mardi Gras' (literally Fat Tuesday) in New Orleans, Luisiana .
Good luck and best wishes to all of those who will keep the Fast.

Gotthard

Dear Paul,

please notice that you replied to the list HUNGARY in response to a
thread that originated in the Usenet group s.c.m (and really belongs
there since we are in the initial phase of discussing Usenet-specific
issues). If you cannot crosspost then do not send an answer to the list
only!

On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, paul wrote:

> +them. The first thing  is clearly to have  a newsgroup for Hungarians, in
> +Hungarian. Thus I  would strongly support creating soc.culture.hungarian,
> +so  that the traffic  from s.c.m could be moved  to there. Dividing s.c.m
 As I answered to the original post, having a group solely for
Hungarians in our native tongue does not conform the practice of s.c.*
hierarchy - such would belong to hu.*. Much better idea in s.c.* is to have
a newsgroup for everyone with interest in Hungary and hungarians, and
English as the international language of the net ought to be welcomed,
too. Besides there's no significant traffic to move from s.c.m (usually
weeks go by without a single Hungarian language posting) so creating a
separate group for that makes not much sense at this point.
 The first priority, in my opinion, is to establish a group with the
name s.c.h that corresponds to the Usenet naming conventions and thus
would have much better chance of being noticed by many people than the
current s.c.m. Trying to make a group against the reigning "Big 7"
newsgroup rules puts achieving this goal at unnecessary risk.
>
> The only thing I see wrong with the choices of names is that not hungarian
> speaker, especially those who are not hungarian themselves, might look at
> s.c.h. and determine that all hungarian-topic discussion on the net is in
> the hungarian language, and probably wouldn't post a request looking for
> an english language on a hungarian language list.  Only hungarians would
think
> to look for the word 'magyar'.  I propose naming the english lang list s.c.h
> and the hungarian lang list s.c.m.
 I also think that confusion would result from making s.c.h native
language, although not the way you think. Usenetters know that the name
of the group does not say anything about the language of discussion,
which is usually English or sometimes the respective language of
national groups. The confusion would come from deviating from this
general practice, multiplied by the suggested strange choice of English
name for the native language group and vice versa.
 The reason I propose to rename s.c.m to s.c.h is that even many
Hungarians would *not* think to look for the word 'magyar' when trying
to locate a group among the thousands all with English names. And I find
preferable to have one, mixed-language group then trying to manage two
separately.

-- Zoli 
--
Zoli , keeper of hungarian-faq

Szervusz Zoli,
it seems it is useful to discuss the HIX issue separately from
the re-christianing of soc.culture.magyar. I agree with Tamas Kocsis,
and with others, when they try to keep the name of soc.culture.magyar in
opposite to soc.culture.hungarian. 'Magyar', just like 'Hungarian', is
an acceptable English word, although the former one is less known.
Your philosophy of changing the name of the group to the better known
synonym, as far as I can see does not meet with the enthusiasm of this
group. Although, issues like this, formally should be discussed on the
appropriate news group, I feel, that at least the initiation of the change
should arise from this group, and should enjoy its majority's support.
Otherwise, I can only regard your action as a personal initiative,
that might go evetually through with only non-Magyar help ;-(
I would choose quite the opposite, and using this opportunity on USENET
to make 'Magyar' more popular and widely known. We should rather initiate
a referendum for changing the other Magyar group's name to bit.listserv.magyar
from bit.listserv.hungary . 'Magyar', otherwise is getting more into the
mind of especially American public, thanks to e.g. articles in the
Washington Post. 'Magyar' can be used just as well as 'Hungarian', e.g. -

Hungarian          -    Magyar
Hungary            -    (Magyarland - as Ireland or Szekelyfold ...)
Hungarian Kingdom  -    Magyar Kingdom
Hungarian Republic -    Magyar Republic

It might take a while, till it gets widely used, if ever, though,
we might want to take the initiative rather than getting rid of it forever.
Name changes are not foreign to any language, not even Hungarian -

olah(vlach) - roman
roman - taljan - olasz(vlach)

According to Webster's and other dictionaries, 'Magyar' has been used in
English
at least as early as the 18th century. Its definition -
- Hungarian; - the member of the dominant people of Hungary;
- the language of Hungarians

My vote for changing the name from soc.culture.magyar will be - NO.
If there is interest, we should start a debate on wether to change
bit.listser.hungary or not.

Gotthard

Dear Gotthard,
> it seems it is useful to discuss the HIX issue separately from
> the re-christianing of soc.culture.magyar.
 I agree, and think that two separate RFD would be needed anyways. There
is still a connection between the two, since if s.c.m is kept then .hix
should logically go to s.c.m.hix IMHO (although Jozsi'd prefer s.c.h.h).
And once we got the voting juices flowing I'd like to get over with both
votes soon. But let's concentrate on the first thing here:

> I agree with Tamas Kocsis,
> and with others, when they try to keep the name of soc.culture.magyar in
> opposite to soc.culture.hungarian. 'Magyar', just like 'Hungarian', is
> an acceptable English word, although the former one is less known.
 Although it's acceptable, it's not really English, is it. But the
question is not that of acceptability (s.c.m has been accepted, after all)
but rather of practicality: what makes it easier for more people to find the
group. I have encountered many, even Hungarian speakers, who missed it.
You can imagine that there are a lot more who don't not even find me ;-(
to ask whether a Hungarian newsgroup exist.

> Your philosophy of changing the name of the group to the better known
> synonym, as far as I can see does not meet with the enthusiasm of this
> group.
 That's not my philosophy, it's Usenet's.
> Although, issues like this, formally should be discussed on the
> appropriate news group, I feel, that at least the initiation of the change
> should arise from this group, and should enjoy its majority's support.
 It has arisen from here, and there's no way to tell what's the majority
without a vote. Tamas (who actually agreed with me in not wanting
separated twin groups), Janos, Steve, Gabor, you and possibly Paul: a
grand total of 6 persons doesn't seem like the majority of s.c.m but
maybe I'm looking from the wrong angle ;-). And my hope springs eternal
that my better arguments could possible convince even some of you...

> Otherwise, I can only regard your action as a personal initiative,
> that might go evetually through with only non-Magyar help ;-(
 While I was hoping not to face the charge of traitor to the nation
until after issuing the formal RFD ;-<, I may as well point out right now
that the potential audience is largely non-Hungarian. If you don't like
it that way why put it into the international soc.culture.* in the first
place?!

> I would choose quite the opposite, and using this opportunity on USENET
> to make 'Magyar' more popular and widely known.
 Using the newsgroup name is not an appropriate device for popularizing
anything, especially not a word that's not well know to begin with. While
a few curious people may want to check out something with an exotic name,
Usenet is way too huge for most to try to find out what every little
group hiding behind a non-descriptive name is. And a more serious problem
with your approach is that 'magyar' is only found by only those who
already know what it means so it isn't made any wider known. And even
some who looks for a hungarian group may not realize that it should be
searched based on its native name unlike all the hundred or so s.c.* (and
thousands other) groups. A much better approach is to have a group with a
name that allows it to reach the widest possible audience - and then, if
you wish so, have articles daily on how nicer it is to use Magyar!
 It looks like you don't think it thru how Usenet is used by someone who
is not already aware of s.c.m; you of course know of it already so assume
that everybody else would learn of it as well. However at any moment a
large portion of the users are new with not much help to go on (unless
they've got some well-written FAQ but I suppose those lucky are a
minority). They are faced by several thousand newsgroups to choose from
(it's not at all obvious that something of Hungarian interest would be
found among soc.culture). They see that everything has English names,
even the national groups, so they search for 'hungarian' or 'hungary' and
find likely nothing, or b.l.h if they are lucky (that group is carried on
something like less then a third of Usenet sites).

> We should rather initiate
> a referendum for changing the other Magyar group's name to
bit.listserv.magyar
> from bit.listserv.hungary . 'Magyar', otherwise is getting more into the
> mind of especially American public, thanks to e.g. articles in the
> Washington Post. 'Magyar' can be used just as well as 'Hungarian', e.g. -
>
> Hungarian        -    Magyar
> Hungary                  -    (Magyarland - as Ireland or Szekelyfold ...)
> Hungarian Kingdom  -  Magyar Kingdom
> Hungarian Republic -  Magyar Republic
 You don't even need a referendum for that, just convince Hugh Agnew to
change the name, or may get someone else to manage another list. But I
really cannot see why should care so much about reforming the English
language. In any case anything that can only count on the fraction of USA
public that reads WP is doomed, I'd think ;-). And you'd probably see
MAgyarorszag more often than Magyar Republic but this whole thing lays
quite afar from the issue of what would be a good newsgroup name on Usenet.

> It might take a while, till it gets widely used, if ever, though,
> we might want to take the initiative rather than getting rid of it forever.
 But like I said using the Usenet group name is one of the least
effective tools imaginable for such purpose. And between now and awhile
I'd rather see people not missing out the goings-on in s.c.m and us
interacting with an audience not restricted by a suboptimal name.

> Name changes are not foreign to any language, not even Hungarian -
>
> olah(vlach) - roman
> roman - taljan - olasz(vlach)
>
> According to Webster's and other dictionaries, 'Magyar' has been used in
English
> at least as early as the 18th century. Its definition -
> - Hungarian; - the member of the dominant people of Hungary;
> - the language of Hungarians
 It is however not being used widely here (on Usenet) and now.

> My vote for changing the name from soc.culture.magyar will be - NO.
> If there is interest, we should start a debate on wether to change
> bit.listser.hungary or not.
 Notice that b.l.* is not part of Usenet per se, you'd have to take up
that debate with the LISTSERV list itself, with its owner in particular.
As for your vote I wish you realized that you are voting not for 'magyar'
but against the name that could draw much larger audience to us.

-- Zoli

 (Gotthard Saghi-Szabo) writes:

>it seems it is useful to discuss the HIX issue separately from
>the re-christianing of soc.culture.magyar. I agree with Tamas Kocsis,
>and with others, when they try to keep the name of soc.culture.magyar in
>opposite to soc.culture.hungarian. 'Magyar', just like 'Hungarian', is
>an acceptable English word, although the former one is less known.
>Your philosophy of changing the name of the group to the better known
>synonym, as far as I can see does not meet with the enthusiasm of this
>group.

Then chalk up one supporter for Zoli's proposal.

>I would choose quite the opposite, and using this opportunity on USENET
>to make 'Magyar' more popular and widely known. We should rather initiate
>a referendum for changing the other Magyar group's name to bit.listserv.magyar
>from bit.listserv.hungary .

Your proselytizing may be a little more successful if it actually reached
people you want to reach.  Those reading s.c.m already know what magyar
is, they need little more info.  Those who do not know what magyar is will
never find a thread to Hungarian topics even if they are interested in it.

This is exactly the point, and it is a pity that, as so often, the ballsy
Hungarian temper overrules dry logic.  This happened back when s.c.m was
created and seem to be happening now.

In a broader sense, I perceive an insecurity/inferiority complex when
people from country/ethnicity X agitate that their name in other languages
should be changed to that used in language X.   For a while I thought
Hungarians were free from this problem, but it looks like we are not.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Antony                                       
Economic Analysis, Strategic Policy Unit, Department of Primary Industries
GPO Box 46, Brisbane Qld 4001, Australia

While I was totally appalled by the idea of pressuring Jo1zsi into not
posting the HIX stuff here, a separate .hix group, or even a hierarchy
.hix.tipp, .hix.szalon, etc. would make sense. But if the digest format is
the only one that HIX will support there is little, if any, benefit from
such a reorganization. To get any real benefit, HIX would have to add a new
service and provide posts one by one. With the new selectable article www
format HIX is moving in this direction anyway.

A great deal of work would have to go into gatewaying usenet posts back to
HIX without creating loops and without destroying the coherence of the
groups. Usenet is different from place to place, with posts arriving in
somewhat random order.  Currently there is an illusion of coherence because
much of usenet gets distributed over a relatively fast internet backbone,
but I think this is a temporary phenomenon, which will go away as soon as
usage-based accounting (ATM) is put in place and usenet reverts to uucp (a
distribution model that is much more appropriate for a country with a weak
TCP/IP infrastructure, such as Hungary). Therefore only one vote really
counts, and that is Jo1zsi's vote. To change that, the absolute minimum
required is that people offer some of their unused computer and network
resources, as well as their copiuos free time, to set up and maintain a
reasonable hix/usenet gateway.

All of this is largely independent of the issue of moderation, which is,
IMHO, a red herring. Nobody is talking about moderating s.c.m (or s.c.h, if
there is to be one). Oblique attacks on the existing moderated HIX groups
make little sense, since most readers of these groups want to keep them that
way. Besides, I doubt Jo1zsi would want to rely on the usenet moderation
mechanism, which is trivial to crack.

Andra1s Kornai

First I must say that, due to Gotthard's resistence, for now I tabled the
motion for .hix in order to proceed with the s.c.hungarian proposal. This
means some two months or more delay for the former, but if you want it
this way so be it. The draft of the formal RFD (to be sent out to s.c.m,
news.groups and news.announce.newgroups on or about Wednesday, Mar 1)
could be seen by 'finger ' - note that my home
account @BC.EDU disallows fingering from outside. Notice that he RFD may not
come out officially until next week when the n.a.n moderator returns from
away. Since it has to appear crossposted then I don't want to duplicate
posting it here before appearing on n.a.n.

 I agree with most of what Andras Kornai said (and am glad that someone
more eloquent joined me ;-)), with one exception: even in the digested
format there would be great benefit in separating .hix. The biggest
advantage is enabling bidirectional gatewaying, which is not that
difficult once all the traffic goes into one group and gets forwarded to
the server.

Zoli , finger  for the charter of s.c.h
* Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
* form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
* Usenet: welcome to the next level.                      (Ron Dippold)

Sorry if this has been sent twice, I am resending the message to test
whether the listserv works correctly and, of course, for the benefit
of the list membership.
Regards,
Roman Kanala
--------------------
Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it seems to have been
already sent to the  HUNGARY list. That is, a message  with identical body (but
possibly different headers) has been posted to the list recently, either by you
or by  someone else. If you  have a good reason  to resend this message  to the
list (for instance because half of the outbound spool files were lost in a disk
crash at  some intermediate node),  please alter the  message text in  some way
before resending  it. Note that  altering the  "Subject:" line or  adding blank
lines at the top or bottom of the message is not sufficient; you should instead
add a line  at the top explaining  why you are re-sending the  message, for the
benefit of the list membership.

------------------------- Rejected message (57 lines) -------------------------
From: 
Subject: Re: Comparing Hungary to the CR
Message-ID: >
Lines: 37
X-Sender: 
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:33:21 GMT

In article >,
Greg Grose > writes:

> Marc Ellingstad wrote:
>
> : Except that ownership is more broadly distributed, how are coupons
> : different
> : from stocks?
>
> Yeah, I wondered about that too, the answer is coupon holders have no
> voting rights?
>

In the voucher (coupon) privatization, the idea is to distribute
VERY quickly huge amounts of property for a symbolic fee to a biggest
number possible of citizens. There are economic reasons for that,
like to get rid of State ownership as soon as possible and to start
up the capital market, as well as political reasons, as to increase
the public adhesion to reform by creating millions of happy shareholders,
but there also are ethical reasons behind, like to distribute the
property to people who were equally economically oppressed by Big Brother
for many years, after all, it's the National Property.

Vouchers can be purchased for 1000 Kcs (now Kc and Sk;-) at postal
offices and exchanged against shares. Already in this stage, there
is a market: some entreprises are more wanted than the other ones.
If the demand and supply exceeds some limits +/-, then a new run
is being held and one can get less shares per coupon.

Shares can be sold (or purchased) later at higher price than the
vouchers that were used to buy them. Sometimes, the factor is about
20 to 30. Since there also is a market for vouchers (not yet exchanged
for shares), investment fonds (like Harvard Invest) who buy vouchers
became important actors on the capital market scene.

Roman Kanala

Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:


: > I agree with Tamas Kocsis,
: > and with others, when they try to keep the name of
soc.culture.magyar in
: > opposite to soc.culture.hungarian. 'Magyar', just like
'Hungarian', is
: > an acceptable English word, although the former one is less
known.
:  Although it's acceptable, it's not really English, is it.

Yes. It. Is.  I myself don't see the need to dumb down scm to sch.

--Greg

In article >,
"Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq" > writes:

> A moderalas persze nem egyenlo cenzuraval, de gondolom ezt nem leszel
> hajlando elismerni ;-<...

Szervusz Zoli,
I hope the other readers of this lists benefit just as much from
our conversation as I do, especially due to your superior knowledge
of computer networking.
        In fact, I agree with you ;-) - moderation or cenzorship are not equal,
although, moderation , in its biased form can be a tool for cenzorship.
I am sorry if I was not more correct. From your lines, I am getting a
more complete picture about your proposed group. Maybe, you too, could
have been more correct , or rather more detailed in description, especially
taking into account, that most of us do not have extensive experience
with networking.

        If I am right,the following is what you would like to propose -

- creation a fourth level gatewayed group that deals with Hungarian
  issues, thats is a group available for people, mailserver w/o USENET access
- no moderator on the USENET side
- moderator on the Internet side, that would not interfere with traffic
  towards USENET from either side, while it would control the traffic
  from both sides towards selected Internet subscribers

        I guess, this should be the next step we should discuss, before going
on to name, etc. I personally agree ;-) with the points above, and  I would
call it simply as a gatewayed Hungarian group. If you are agree with those,
I would like you to describe the advantages/disadvantages of creating a
gatewayed group that would be available from the Internet side only for
HIX subscribers as opposed to what I would like to propose -
a gatewayed group that is available for every people and mailserver
with Internet access, with the moderators of mailservers (e.g. HIX)
having as much control over the flow towards/from their groups as much they
want.

Gotthard

Zoli, for what my lone voice counts for, I am in favor of the
name change. I looked under soc.culture.hungarian, and not finding
anything, thought that there was nothing...By fluke I was looking
for a soc.culture.norwegian (my fiancee is norvegia) and to my
surprise, saw soc.culture.magyar in passing...And I speak the
language. It just did not occur to me to look under magyar, as
all the other groups seemed to be titled in english(or the english
equivalent if you like). So I wonder how many others missed us in a
similar fashion?? I do have an idea...In any post to soc.culture.hungarian,
any time you use the word hungary or hungarian, replace it by
magyar or magyarorszag etc.. And then we can start throwing in other
words as well, and soon the whole world will speak hunga..,er, magyar
and then magyar will become the international language, and every
restaurant will have a shaker of paprika on the tables...sorry, got
a bit off track there..
anyway, I am in favor of a referendum...
I like referendums...I live in Quebec!
regards,
arpi
:~)>

Paul Gelencser wrote recently in reply to Eva Balogh about Xenophobia
and foreign investments in Hungary. Whilst I understand his thinking, I do
not agree with his conclusions for the following reasons:-

If you are an "Apple" who is building a new industry as you grow, then OK
you can start as a small company, develop the market and ride the wave-front
until it breaks (over the reef that is IBM).

However for other industries - they require an injection of capital (whether
you adopt a Marxist approach and divide this into Financial, Intellectual, and
 Proletariat is
irrelevant really) to kick start them.

The major industries of the USA in the 18-19th century needed Capital and lots
of it, for example the railroads, steel mills, copper mines, oil and gas
drilling - they all needed capital intensive equipment to make them function.
Don't forget that these then evolved into Cartels that then required breaking
up by "trust-busters", and that if these quasi-monopolies had not been broken
up there would have been no chance for newcomers (once again funded with
Capital) to get into these respective businesses.

Oh and where did most of the Capital come from? the financial capital came
from Europe (mainly Britain), the "proletariat" was supplied by cheap
immigrant labour (remember all those wild west films depicting railroad track
laying crews), OK the last item was intellectual capital and that was
home-grown, but without the other two it would still just be a good idea.

Take as an example Aluminium - Hungary has large deposits of good bauxite,
and has Hungalu. Without going too deep into the matter, it is not an ideal
situation as one needs pots of money to keep those pots going (pun intended).
That is why Western Europe buys alot of its Aluminium from Quebec, as they
have cheap electricity due to hydro power.

So maybe I am prejudiced [being an "Angol"  (;<{), but we had our own
exploiters too - afterall those Romans and Phoenecians sailed over and
seized our natural resources (some 2000 years ago). Yes that reminds me
that if his comment :-

"Remember, none of the colonies of Britian and France were happy with
their  status"

were true how much happier they must be, now that for the past 30 years since
independance they have been "basket-cases", - come on you cannot blame
everything on colonialists - whether they are proto, neo or whatever!!

Micky Allen

If you are interested  in the opinions of high-school-age students,
I have a friend teaching English in Ozd at the moment.  I'd be happy
to send her copies of the questionnaire or give your her name and
address.
Tim Petersik
Ripon College
e-mail: 

Thanks Gotthard, you summed up pretty well what I meant, except that
.hix would not actually be moderated from the email side (what you
incorrectly termed Internet, sorry for nit-picking a bit) either -
except for the HIX lists already moderated. Rather a software program
(called a demon or robot) would receive the Usenet posts and distribute
them just like the email submissions to HIX, which then is going to be
posted via both email and news. I am truly sorry if my original pithy
description 'formally moderated', which I thought to be (mistakenly, it
turned out) concise but clear enough, caused a bit of unnecessary furor here.
 Anyways at this point it seems to me that the debate over this group
should be postponed until after the one on creating s.c.hungary is resolved.
Interested readers please try 'finger ' for a preview
of my planned RFD on that (I will also send send it shortly to everyone who
participated in the thread, or if someone have not but would rather have
it emailed ask me for a copy). I worked it out somewhat too longish to
my taste ;-) but hopefully elaborated enough to address the concerns
voiced here during this past week. I want to submit it around this Wed to
get in the news.announce.newgroups queue, but it may take a week or so
after that to appear (for the n.a.n moderator is away).

 And let me point out again that your crossposts with b.l.h wander
several days before showing up here so there's something icky with their
travel thru Usenet!

Zoli , finger  for the charter of s.c.h
* Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
* form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
* Usenet: welcome to the next level.             (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)

I second Paul's (Gelencser) writing.

Sandor

It is well to remember that the information age itself is
changing alot of what we think of as Standard Operating Procedure.  Hungary
needs to find its niche in the world economy.  I will give the example of
medical applications software.

        This is an area where there is going to be alot of growth.  Good
medical software that is comprehensive in its scope and nature.  Why couldn't
Hungary be the place where this could be written?  Hungary already has the
basic ingredients:  Patients, Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, ...  I've worked
for four years in the medical industry and this area is wide open.  The
government could make this a very good environment for this to happen --
that's the Hungarian government.

This is spookie!! Why do we need moderators? I'd rather hear offending
opinions than be oblivious to them. Things are not all that nasty here as
to require moderation. It seems to me there is more to lose then to gain!!

In article >,
Gotthard Saghi-Szabo > wrote:

>Azt az otletedet, hogy a soc.culture.magyar csoportot atkereszteljuk
>soc.culture.hungarian-ra , hogy  -
>>"clearly to have  a newsgroup for Hungarians, in Hungarian "
>nem tartom logikusnak, ellenkezoleg, ha mar egy tisztan magyar nyelvu
>csoportot szeretnel letrehozni magyarok szamara, a jelenlegi
>elnevezes lenne esszeru.

Elnezest, ha nem voltam egyertelmu. A termeszetesen az s.c.m-et gondoltam
magyar, az s.c.h-t nem magyar nyelvunek.

>Egy uj csoport letrehozasa, vagy egy csoport kettevalasztasa
>alatalaban akkor javasolt, ha a napi posta eleri a kb 200-as szamot.
>Jelenleg ez egyik magyar csoportban sincs igy.

Ebben teljesen   igazad van. Ami gondolkodasra  serkentett  az az, mikent
lehetne  a jelenleg  szinte kizarolag   HIX-en keresztul torteno   magyar
nyelvu/kozonsegu  vitat    az USENET-re atterelni.   Ennek   ugyanis,  en
elsosorban technikai okokbol,  masok  a sokat emlegetett   cenzura miatt,
nagyon orulnek.

>A csoport feldarabolasa   helyett, egyeb  javaslatokat  is figyelembe
>kellene venni, pl.
>- egy hu.* nemzeti halozat letrehozasat, ahogy Fekete Zoli javasolta,
>[...]

Mint erre mar valaki ramutatott, egy hu.* csoport jo esellyel csak otthon
lenne foghato.  Tekintve hogy rengeteg  magyar el/tanul/dolgozik szerte a
vilagban, ez veluk szemben nem lenne egy baratsagos lepes.

Gabor

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gabor J.Toth           http://www.princeton.edu/~jtoth
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Dear Gotthard,
Do you know anything about the mock funerals performed in Hungary right
before Ash Wednesday.  I am conducting a research on a particular kind
known as the "Burial of the Fiddle."  According to the Hungarians of
Cleveland (especially those born here), this custom was known among the
Hungarian gypsies.  I would like to obtain folkloric information about
this.  Would you be able to help in this?  Ha erti a magyar nyelvet,
akkor esetleg ertekezhetunk magyarul is.  Looking forward to your response.
Arjun Sabharwal. )


 On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Gotthard Saghi-Szabo wrote:

> Next week, many Christians will start their pre-Easter 40 day Fast .
>
> Shrove Tuesday - Hushagyokedd    Febr. 28th
> Ash Wednesday  - Hamvazoszerda   March 1st.
>
> Shrove Tuesday is the last day of the Carnival Season (Farsang).
> It is celebrated many different ways, one of the best known of those is
> the 'Mardi Gras' (literally Fat Tuesday) in New Orleans, Luisiana .
> Good luck and best wishes to all of those who will keep the Fast.
>
> Gotthard
>