It looks like Andras Kornai's attempt to engage Mr Liptak in a two-way
conversation is doomed to fail.  Like any self-respecting spam artist,
Mr Liptak seems to have write-only access to the Net.  He posts, and
re-posts, and posts one more time to make sure.  He does not read, and
he certainly will not stoop to respond.

This approach is common among those who think of the Net as a potential
medium for grand propaganda coups.  They are stuck with a mental model of
the Net as a species of broadcast medium: a hub-and-spoke type centralized
organization, one-way communication from the center out to the periphery,
and a captive audience mesmerized by the message from on high.  A giant
megaphone to be grabbed by the professional propagandist, much like the
editorial page of the local rag, a radio station, or a newspaper like
Magyar Nemzet.  This is exactly what the Net is not.  It is not territory
to be conquered.  It is ephemeral, it does not have a captive audience, and
whatever shifting audience it does have keeps talking back all the time.
Very aggravating.

Andras mentions Mr Liptak's charming piece of folk anthropology -- used
here to trash the Serbs, but widely applicable as a slur against whichever
ethnic group you dislike at the moment:

> The Krajina Serbs have a warrior mentality, they carry guns, for
> centuries they have been in uninterrupted conflict with the Croats,
> their view of life is based on constant struggle and hate for ones
> neighbors, their personality corresponds to the rugged terrain they
> have inherited. The placidity of the people of Vojvodina, including the
> Hungarians, corresponds to the openness of their fertile plains. Yet,
> their friendly and mild personality does not mean, that their patience
> is unlimited. They are a strong and determined people.

I think Mr Liptak has an excellent point here.  Elevation has everything
to do with national character.  Anyone who ever lived in a highrise
apartment  building can confirm that.  People on the lower floors tend
to be placid, hard-working, and friendly.  They are reliable, they pay
their bills on time, and they do not cheat on their wives.  They are the
pillars of society.  Early to bed, early to rise.  People on the top
floors are a different breed altogether.  They throw loud parties, they
pass bad checks, and their kitchen floor is always covered with crumbs.
They hang kitschy pictures in their living rooms.  They perform satanic
rituals when they are not reading the National Enquirer.  They got it
in their genes.  Their view of life is based on constant struggle and
hate for their neighbors.  Especially the ones on the lower floors.
This is how it has always been.  And this is how it will be for ever
and ever till the end of time.  It is a scientifically proven fact.
You can check it in the National Enquirer.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

Yes a want.
---
                                   Eva Elena Antal
                                   

>>Also, there is no land within the current borders of Hungary that the
 Rumanians
>
>>can or could have claims on,

>Do yoy want to bet on it, Paul?
>Joe

This is a bad joke, right?  Whatelse is left to steal?

Paul

Tjis goes beyond "trash".  It robs students of their right to learn.  It
teaches them that plagerism is O.K., but worse it robs them of their
right to learn the importance of thinking for themselves, and their right
to learn how to express themselves.  I only hope that whoever is behind
this may one day be robbed in such a merciless way.  I honestly don't
know how these people can sleep at night!

On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, paul wrote:

> This is an example of what I think most of us hope the Internet willNOT
> be used for (trash included for completeness).
>
> ****************************************************************
>
>         ****** 700+ Middle School - College Essays ******
>
>  ** For $1.00 you can order a sample of are 100 best Essays.
>  ** Use them for what ever you wish. Ahh, you want some uses
>     here are the top 3 uses of these Essays:
>
> 1)   Print them up with your name on top and turn in to
>      your teachers.
> 2)   Use them as a source for your written reports.
> 3)   Sell them individually to kids at school.
>
>  ** All essays have been compiled from Cities across the U.S
>  ** The Trial Pack is free the $1.00 is just cost for are time
>     that we spend to copy these sample packs.
>  ** You get a complete list of All are other essays with your order.
>  ** If you would like a Trial Pack Follow the instructions Below:
>
>  Address Envelope to:
>
> etc
> etc
>
>
> Paul Gelencser
>

I rarely disagree with Eva Balogh, and I basically agree with her statement
on this issue as well, but  I see another angle, too.

Clearly there are many Hungarian companies, mainly in the manufacturing
sector that need to be modernized, streamlined or shut down.  What passed
for first class product in the COMECON trading group rarely sells on the
free market for top dollar.  Western capital and management can do wonders
for these companies.

But there are many Hungarian companies, mainly in the service sector that
were purchased in order to gain market share within the country.  Stores
like Meinl and Skala, to no one's surprise, began to sell more and more
goods made in Austria and Germany, and Hungarian goods started to disappear
from the shelves.  The Hungarian economy, of course, gains by collecting the
VAT (Value Added Tax) on the stores sales and collects import duties as well
on the foreign goods, but I wonder if that income makes up for the lost
wages and increased social benefits of Hungarian workers put out of their jobs.

Some of the manufacturing acquisitions may also be less beneficial than they
seem to be on the surface.  Buying up your competition and putting them out
of their misery makes a lot of sense.  You end up with increased market
share.  Take Tungsram and GE, for example.  Although it has not happened
yet, -- and I hope it won't --  you and I, Eva, having lived in the US know
perfectly well that at any moment hordes of management consultants from the
likes of Arthur Anderson or McKenzie, etc. are ready to analyze GE's
worldwide operations and determine, just as an example, that GE would be
better off shutting down its troublesome plant in Hungary, beset with labor
problems and extremely high social benefits and expand a plant somewhere
else in the world like Portugal or Indonesia.  Having eliminated Tungsram as
a competitor, GE would then be able to raise the price of light bulbs
everywhere, except for those troublesome Dutch at Phillips.   So GE goes
after them, next... and so on..

Hungary, to be successful, must carefully balance "good" and "bad" foreign
capital investment by well thought out tax and other inducements.  Plants
like Suzuki, who brought a new industry to Hungary and who have a well
understood motivation to increase and then maintain a high "Hungarian
content" in their cars in order to qualify for lower European taxes are
beneficial.  They also bring in management and technology innovations like
EDI, JIT, etc., that improve the overall manufacturing environment.

But, overall, I agree with you Eva...  Hungarian companies must adept or die...


Charlie Vamossy

Joe was not making a joke Paul, regarding

>
> >>Also, there is no land within the current borders of Hungary that the
>  Rumanians
> >
> >>can or could have claims on,
>
> >Do yoy want to bet on it, Paul?
> >Joe
>
> This is a bad joke, right?  Whatelse is left to steal?
>
> Paul
>
If you base it on lingustic linkages, there is a group farther south int
he balkans according to a linguistic map in the text I teach from, that
apparently speaks Romanian and they are nowhere near Romania. Folks, take
this tongue-in-cheek though, since i have never heard any Romanian
propaganda pushing this one.

Darren Purcell

Hello.  I'll be in Budapest in November and wish to meet other
international writers and journalists.  Any suggestions?  Thanks very
much.    

>It looks like Andras Kornai's attempt to engage Mr Liptak in a two-way
>conversation is doomed to fail.  Like any self-respecting spam artist,
>Mr Liptak seems to have write-only access to the Net.  He posts, and
>re-posts, and posts one more time to make sure.  He does not read, and
>he certainly will not stoop to respond.

So says the dwarf about the giant.

Joe Pannon