In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>The following is what Gabor Barsai dislikes:
>SZERELMESVERS

Yeah, it pretty much gave me the urge to throw up. Most poetry written after
1850 does that to me.

Gabor

In article >,  (Robert 
Kendzie) says:
>
>I am researching a screenplay and am desperately looking for information 
>on the life of St. Stephen, the first king of Hungary.  I am especially 
>interested in myths and stories surrounding this man.  How did he become 
>king?  Why was he made a saint?  How did he die?  Is the Holy Dexter 
>really his right hand- how did he lose it?
>
His Majesty St. Stephen the first christian king of the hungarians was canonise
d ("made saint"), in 1083 august 15 under the reign of St. Laszlo. St. Stephen 
was Apostlic King, who converted the nation on Christianity (which of course co
uldn't happen without brutal fight between Him and the pagan opposition, leaded
 ones to war against his oncel (Koppany) in 997). The first law-book came from 
him, which was based on the other europian-christian law. As the Reigning Princ
e He was the Master of life and death. His religious sanctity leaded all His li
fe and noble behaviour in peace and war. His admonition to his son shows His wi
sdom and greatness as statesman. He is the Guardian Saint of the hungarian nati
on. 

After the permition arrived from Pope Gregory VII His Majesty St.Laszlo called 
the sick and crippled to Sze'kesfehe'rva'r to the ceremony, which take place on
 the 45-th anniversary of King Stephen's death. (Imre Stephen's son was canoniz
ed at the same time) King Laszlo encouraged the people to pray and ask, to go t
o the tomb. It started on a blind boy, his eye opened, and a flud of miracles f
illed the cellebration, which lasted for days. (Such time never happened since 
the Lord raised to heaven.) King Laszlo and the priest prayed and fast for thre
e days before trying to open the tomb. But the stone did not move... (but this 
is a different chapter of the history) Finaly after releasing Salamon from the 
prison the stone moved, and the right arm of St.Stephen was intact (The Holy De
xter). (The celebration of the 900 th anniversary was in 1983 aug. 15 and 20. I
n the St.Stephen Bazilica in Budapest.)

Despite of the ateists and marxists devaluete or deny the significance of St.St
ephen, because they don't belive in anything but themself, St.Stephen was a sai
nt, and the biggest statesman in the hungarian history. Without Him there wasn'
t hungarian nation most likely today. The new pagans deny this fact, but let me
 join the situation with the tatar, which size and power isn't comparable with 
hungarians... Whoever denies the spiritual reality, they aren't able to enderst
and St.Stephen's pearson and not his time or the whole christian history.

I hope you (Robert Kendzie) are researching for the glory of St.Stephen, not to
 abuse His Holy Memory. He is the protector, healer and most loved Saint of the
 hungarian history.

The next text I copied from the Web, you can visit this side to find more links
 and pictures to download (p.e. the Holy Dexter):

http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/hungary/hungary.html

Regards.	Teddy

Please copy it into a wordprocessor if it is hard to read on your
monitor. I wasn't able to size to screen.


THE HOLY RIGHT HAND 

These pictures show the hand-relic of the first Hungarian Christian king Saint 
Stephen I.
(1000-1038) which is kept in great reverence by the Hungarians. Saint Stephen I
.
accomplished the historic mission to turn to Christianity the pagan Hungarian t
ribes who
arrived in Transylvania in 896 A.D. and to establish the Hungarian state. In th
is way, the
new Christian Hungarian state could well fit in the community of the other Chri
stian
kingdoms of Europe and Saint Stephen I., by turning his nation to Christians, e
nsured the
future of Hungary for the next one thousand years. For this huge achievement, h
e received
the title "apostolic king" and he was canonized in 1083, which was initiated by
 king Saint
Laszlo I who was himself canonized, too. As part of the canonization process, o
n August 20.
1083 (the day of Stephen in the christian world), the remains of king Saint Ste
phen I. were
elevated from the crypt of the coronation cathedral in Szekesfehervar and the e
ntire right
arm was removed from the body and prepared for preservation. King Saint Laszlo 
I.
appointed an abbott called Mercurius, who was responsible for the inventory kee
ping of
the treasury of the cathedral, to store up the Holy Right Hand of Saint Stephen
 I. at his
private mansion in county Bihar, eastern Hungary. Later they built an abbey at 
Mercurius'
land to keep the Holy Right Hand which became a pilgrimage site later, and thro
ughout the
years a town erected in its neighbourhood which was also called Holy Right. Acc
ording to
the unjust peace treaty of Trianon at Versailles in 1920, the possession of the
 town Holy
Right, which took its name from the holiest relic of the first Hungarian king, 
more
justifiably can belong to Rumania rather than to Hungary, and with a motivation
 impossible
to follow, the Allies annexed the town, along with entire Transylvania to Ruman
ia. The
town is called Siniob today. 

The present day Holy Right Hand used to be a complete right arm, and it is beli
eved that
the lower arm is kept in Lemberg (Ukraine), whereas the upper arm is in the Sai
nt Stephen
cathedral in Vienna, where the inventory lists it since 1457. 

In the late 11th century, Hungarian king Kalman the Booklover attached a little
 parchment
plate to the Holy Right Hand with latin words on it: "Dextera beati Stephani Re
gis et
Confessioris gloriosi" (i.e. The right hand of blessed king Stephen, glorious c
onfessor).
This piece of parchment testified the origin of the relic and was rolled up and
 inserted
between the fingers of the hand. 

The Holy Right Hand was kept in the abbey at Holy Right, county Bihar, until th
e Tartar
invasion in 1241 when the Hungarian king Bela IV. rescued it to Raguza (Dubrovn
ik,
Croatia) and left it in the care of the dominican monks. The monks placed it in
 their church,
the Saint Jacob abbey, kept it with great reverence, and when they put it on pu
blic display
on the day of Stephen (August 20), they locked the gates of the city and double
d the
guards. In 1590, they build a relic holder for the Holy Right Hand made of silv
er and
ground glass and since 1618 they listed it in their abbey inventory. Many histo
rians agree
that the lower and upper arm was detached from the right hand by the dominican 
monks
and from here they were taken to Lemberg and Vienna. 

In 1771, Habsburg Maria Theresa reigning queen in Hungary brought back the Holy
 Right
Hand from Raguza and placed in in the imperial palace of Schonbrunn, Vienna. Sh
e had a
glass coffin made for it and put a silver frame around the little parchment pla
te which
carried the relic with its testimonial writing. After this, she gave it back to
 the Hungarians,
and she left it in the responsibility of the priest of the parish of the royal 
palace in Buda
(capital of Hungary then). 

In 1862, the Hungarian Bishopric ordered a closed, chapel- shaped, ornamental r
elic holder
to be built in neogothic design using silver and ground glass, and the smaller 
holder made
in Raguza to be placed inside it. 

Since 1882, the responsible person for the care of the Holy Right Hand has been
 the priest
of the parish of the royal palace in Budapest, who was appointed by the king. 

In 1944, as the front approached Budapest, the small relic holder with the Holy
 Right Hand
was rescued to Austria where Dr. Rohracher, archbishop of Salzburg kept it. The
 neogothic
chapel- shaped holder remained in the royal palace, and unfortunately, the buil
ding
received a direct bomb hit and the little parchment plate, along with its accom
panying
photographs, perished in the flames. The neogothic holder also disappeared and 
everybody
thought that it was destroyed under the ruins. 

On Stephen's day, August 20 1945, Pater Fabian Flynn, priest of the US Army, br
ought
back the Holy Right Hand from Austria and handed over to Bela Witz, who was the
 priest
at the royal palace that time. 

It was after the war that a message arrived to Bela Witz from a dominican churc
h in the
outskirts of Budapest (the Dominican Order seems to faithfully carry with the H
oly Right
Hand throughout its history) that the larger chapel-shaped, neogothic relic hol
der was not
lost, because a young priest called Imre L'hullier found it within the ruins of
 the sieged
royal palace where it was tossed in a ditch. He recognized it, took it home and
 hid it. 

Today, the Holy Right Hand is resting in the Saint Stephen cathedral in Budapes
t and,
along with the Holy Crown and the coronation jewels , it represents one of the 
very highly
regarded historic objects for the Hungarians. It is a silent witness of the win
ding Hungarian
road of history which was spiked with blessings and damns, cares and cheers, de
spairs and
hopes, but which could never be so hard on the Hungarians to break the spirit o
f Hungary.

In article >,  (Shawn
Freligh) wrote:

>         The following questionnaire was rectified for the purpose of a 
> sociological study to determine what characteristics people find 
> important in a mate/partner.  Any of the questions asked will remain 
> highly confidential and will be retained solely for this study.  The 
> study I am conducting is in no way meant to harm, defame, or 
> incriminate anyone by sexual preference, gender, race, or geographical 
> location.  
>      I am asking for your participation to better understand why we 
> pick the people we do for a mate/partner.  I would sincerely 
> appreciate your forwarding this entire message to all of your friends, 
> and your response to this questionnaire.  If you would please return 
> the questionnaire and your answer to the following e-mail address: 
> .  Once again thank you for your help in my 
> research.
> 
> 1.  What is your race/ethnicity? ___Black __x_Hispanic ___Asian 
>     ___American/Pacific Islander___Native American/Alaskan Native 
>     ___Caucasian ___Other
> 
> 2.  What is your sex? ___Male       __x_Female
> 
> 3.  How much education do you have? ___Below high school ___H.S. 
>     diploma ___G.E.D ___Vocation ___Currently in school               
>     __x_College -- __6___ How many years?
> 
> 4.  What is your citizenship (if U.S. what state do you reside in)? 
>     __________u.s.  california______________________________________
> 
> 5.  Please order the following from 1-8 (one being the most important 
>     to eight being the least)?
> 
>      ___5_Physical appearance
>      __1__Sensitivity
>      __3__Moral/ethical
>      __4__Intelligence
>      ___8_Wealth
>      __6__Sexually pleasing
>      __7__Education
>      __2__Commitment
> 
> 6.  Do you look for a friend, lover, or both in a relationship? 
>     ___Friend ___Lover __x_Both
> 
> 7.  Your sexual preference is? __x_Heterosexual ___Bi-sexual 
>     ___Homosexual
> 
> 8.  What is the most important quality one must possess to be a 
>     partner/mate? __caring_____________
> 
> 9.  Do you date ___Wealthy ___repetitive ___Carpe-Diem (living day to 
>     day) ___Educated ___Prince charming, or _x__no preference?
> 
> 10. If selected may I contact you by e-mail to set up a interview? 
>     _x__Yes ___No
> 
> Thank you for your cooperation, please return to 
> 
..

                     \\|//                      
                     (O-O)                      
 ________________oOO__(_)__OOo_________________ 
|                 Steve Cosio                  |
|      Owner, Great American Music (DJs)       |
|      Talkshow Director, KSDO/San Diego       |
|                               |
|________________________Oooo._________________|
                 .oooO   (   )                  
                 (   )    ) /                   
                  \ (    (_/                    
                   \_)

Thank you for your response!  The story you posted concerning the fate of 
Stephen's hand was very helpful.  The story I am working on concerns 
ancient holy relics and I hope to include some information about St. 
Stephen and his deeds as the first King of Hungary.

The mail I have received has been very helpful, but I am still looking 
for more.  If anyone knows any stories connected with Stephen's wars 
against his uncle Koppani or Gyula in Transylvania and how he defeated 
them, It would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!

 () writes:

>>Some of the American soldiers may want to attend performances at
>>Budapest's ornate opera house on the Danube river front or to
>>take a leisurely river cruise.

>When did they move that Opera to the river front?

The original article's author must have confused the Opera House and
the Pesti Vigado - if not the Parliament ;-).

George Antony

 (Robert Kendzie) wrote:

>I am researching a screenplay and am desperately looking for information
>on the life of St. Stephen, the first king of Hungary.  I am especially
>interested in myths and stories surrounding this man.  How did he become
>king?  Why was he made a saint?  How did he die?  Is the Holy Dexter
>really his right hand- how did he lose it?

The first part of my prev.posting did not succeed to fit on screen
so I try again (Sorry!).

His Majesty St. Stephen the first christian king of the hungarians was
canonised ("made saint"), in 1083 august 15 under the reign of St. Laszlo.
St. Stephen was Apostlic King, who converted the nation on Christianity
(which of course couldn't happen without brutal fight between Him and the
pagan opposition, leaded ones to war against his oncel (Koppany) in 997).
The first law-book came from him, which was based on the other europian-christi
an law. As the Reigning Prince He was the Master of life and death.
His religious sanctity leaded all His life and noble behaviour in peace and
war. His admonition to his son shows His wisdom and greatness as
statesman. He is the Guardian Saint of the hungarian nation. 

After the permition arrived from Pope Gregory VII His Majesty St.Laszlo
called the sick and crippled to Sze'kesfehe'rva'r to the ceremony, which
take place on the 45-th anniversary of King Stephen's death. (Imre
Stephen's son was canonized at the same time) King Laszlo encouraged
the people to pray and ask, to go to the tomb. It started on a blind boy, his
eye opened, and a flud of miracles filled the cellebration, which lasted for
days. (Such time never happened since the Lord raised to heaven.) King
Laszlo and the priest prayed and fast for three days before trying to open
the tomb. But the stone did not move... (but this is a different chapter of
the history) Finaly after releasing Salamon from the prison the stone
moved, and the right arm of St.Stephen was intact (The Holy Dexter). (The
celebration of the 900 th anniversary was in 1983 aug. 15 and 20. In the
St.Stephen Bazilica in Budapest.)

Despite of the ateists and marxists devaluete or deny the significance of
St.Stephen, because they don't belive in anything but themself, St.Stephen
was a saint, and the biggest statesman in the hungarian history. Without
Him there wasn't hungarian nation most likely today. The new pagans deny
this fact, but let me join the situation with the tatar, which size and power
isn't comparable with hungarians... Whoever denies the spiritual reality,
they aren't able to enderstand St.Stephen's pearson and not his time or the
whole christian history.

I hope you (Robert Kendzie) are researching for the glory of St.Stephen,
not to abuse His Holy Memory. He is the protector, healer and most loved
Saint of the hungarian history.

The next text I copied from the Web, you can visit this side to find more
links and pictures to download (p.e. the Holy Dexter):

http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/hungary/hungary.html

Regards.	Teddy

In article > Peter Szaszvari,
 writes:
>Some people may call whores "kuruc" but it does not imply that any meaning of 
>kuruc would be whore.

Have you seen a dictionary (in any languages ) lately ? A big, thick one.
You know inside there are words. A lot of. Under the words there are
the meanings of those words and they are usually numbered. Let say:

KURUC n.
1. Hungarian insurrectionist in the 17th century (orig. unknown)
2. whore (slang)

>Bad use of the language will not redefine it at least 
>not in such a short term.

Who talked about redifining anything ?

Tamás

R0498 wrote:
> 
> In Malay "I love you" would be
> " Aku Chinta Padamu"
> In Japanese it would be
> " I sterio"
> In French it would be
> "Je'taime"
> In Nepali it would be as you know
> " Mo temili prem garda chu"

--
In Arabic it would be
    "Ana bahibak" for a male 
 or "Ana bahibik" for a female

In Italian it would be 
"Ti amo"
 

-------------------
Joe Nader
McGill University

In article >, > writes:
> Path: news.pi.net!surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!
news.campus.mci.net!news.telis.org!usenet
> From: Imre Voros >
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
> Subject: Re: e-mail
> Date: 23 Apr 1996 05:28:22 GMT
> Organization: Neuromuscular Therapy
> Lines: 3
> Message-ID: >
> References: >
> NNTP-Posting-Host: s09-pm03-ontro-t.telis.org
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
> To: 
> 
> SZoval Hollandiaban eltek,de Magyarorszagra szeretnetek e-mailezni.Igy en 
> talan mar ki is estem asorbol?
> 
> 
Egyaltalan nem estel ki a sorbol kedves Imre ami engem illet en szivesen levele
zek mindenkivel.
Udv Klaratol

On 23 Apr 1996, Gabor Barsai wrote:

> 
> In article >,
> Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
> >Are you trying to tell me, that our University does not have "Wally Keeler
> >o:sszes mu"vei" in the Library? Boy I'll be happy to get out of here and tak
e
> >up a job teaching English to pseudo-poets and other wannabes. Spelling, too.
> >GK
> >> Your AUTHOR not found, Nearby AUTHORS are:
> >>       Your entry Keeler Wally would be here
> 
> Of course not...why, what did you expect? His definition of 'creative'
> translates to 'cretinic' to us humans...so why would anybody want his
> writhings...oops, I mean, writings?
> 
Just out of curiosity, I looked at Columbia University's library systems 
and there is a Wally Keeler book here, printed in  Canada, I don't 
remember it's name though.  But then again, I also found a 1935 edition 
of the play "Our Town", in Turkish, at the same library.  There doesn't 
seem to be a book lacking from this place...
Melis Behlil.

> His postings are:
> 1, inconsistent
> 2, illogical
> 3, moronic (note: NOT childish or immature)
> 
> So, as Mr. Spock would say:
> 
> "I believe there is a very good reason why nobody likes him."
> 
> Gabor
> 
>

Whoever is collecting a list of different translations of "I love you"
would you please send me a list of what you have so far. thanks,

SZoval Hollandiaban eltek,de Magyarorszagra szeretnetek e-mailezni.Igy en 
talan mar ki is estem asorbol?

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>
>The exclusive second meaning of kuruc is whore (kurva)
>in Hungarian. The cheap whores' most famous work place
>in Budapest is the Rákóczi tér (square).Rákóczi was the
>leader of that kuruc insurrection, hence the connotation.
>
>Tamás

Some people may call whores "kuruc" but it does not imply that any meaning of 
kuruc would be whore. Bad use of the language will not redefine it at least 
not in such a short term.
For example I could call somebody an idiot, but beause of this the word idiot 
will not mean that (single) person.

So far the only real good hungarian thing I found was the language. If you 
happen to know something else please let me know :)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Forditast vallalok hollandrol-magyarra.

In article >,
George Antony Ph 93818 > wrote:
 () writes:
>
>>>Some of the American soldiers may want to attend performances at
>>>Budapest's ornate opera house on the Danube river front or to
>>>take a leisurely river cruise.
>
>>When did they move that Opera to the river front?
>
>The original article's author must have confused the Opera House and
>the Pesti Vigado - if not the Parliament ;-).
>
>George Antony

It's still a helluva lot closer to the Danube than to Tasza'r :-)

In article >,
Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>So far the only real good hungarian thing I found was the language. If you
>happen to know something else please let me know :)
>
>Szaszvari Peter
>(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Just for starters:
1. Food (Tudom Gabor, Te k...ra utalod a magyaros eteleket, de attol meg jo!)
2. Wines (Tokaj, Balatonboglar, Eger, Szeksza'rd, etc.)
3. Noniusz (horse), Magyar-tarka (cattle)
4. Women
5. Balaton, Bakony, Vertes, Bu:kk, Ma'tra, Hortoba'gy
6. Pa'linka
7. Soproni A'szok (beer), Borsodi Vila'gos (beer)
8. Level of education dispite of the level of teacher's salary
9. Music (Liszt, Barto'k, Koda'ly, Ba'rdos, etc.)

GK

In article >,
    (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
>In article >,
>Just for starters:
>1. Food (Tudom Gabor, Te k...ra utalod a magyaros eteleket, de attol meg jo!)
>2. Wines (Tokaj, Balatonboglar, Eger, Szeksza'rd, etc.)
>3. Noniusz (horse), Magyar-tarka (cattle)
>4. Women
>5. Balaton, Bakony, Vertes, Bu:kk, Ma'tra, Hortoba'gy
>6. Pa'linka
>7. Soproni A'szok (beer), Borsodi Vila'gos (beer)
>8. Level of education dispite of the level of teacher's salary
>9. Music (Liszt, Barto'k, Koda'ly, Ba'rdos, etc.)
>
>GK
>
Thanks! I agree on all but the palinka. (It is only matter of taste.)
I am very happy that you mention 8. 
You made my day in fact. Tomorrow I go home for a short time. Usually I don't 
feel very well this cases. But now it is better.

SzP.


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

In article >,
    (Wally Keeler) wrote:
>SZERELMESVERS
>
>Nem Tudom Miert Beszelek neked csillagokrol
[...]

En sem!
I don't know but what if this poem is just simply bad (I mean the lack of 
quality) ? It reminds me to the ones we used to write for the girls of the 
same class into their little pink diaries when we were 13. It was really nice 
in that time but it was quite a while ago...


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

In article >,  (Peter Vass) wrote:

>In article >,
>    (T. M. Lutas) wrote:

>>If Romania were truly ethnicity blind, the Hungarians would be jumping and
>>shouting much more than they are now. There would be no Hungarian language
>>schools since all citizens would have the same right to the same education
>>which, of course would be done in the national language.
>
>A bit strange opinion. Everybody should have the right to the education in his
>own language.

At the start of schooling one does not have a real language. Developing a
language is one of the basic tasks of educating a child. A child is a 
child and does not have "Hungarian" or "Romanian" stamped on their forehead
on exit from the womb. In a truly ethnically blind society they would continue
to be treated the same. Separate language schooling is a recipe for 
differential treatment and differential rights.

>> The political system would not guarantee that any ethnic minority would 
>> have a national representative in parliament no matter how small.

>Right. The only criterium should be the elections.

Now, in Romania it is not. The hungarians and any other ethnic minority
are guaranteed at least one seat in parliament. You can bet if Article
59, section 2 were to be removed the hungarians would not be thrilled at
the advance of equal rights.

ARTICLE 59
(1) The Chamber of Deputies and the Senate shall
be elected by universal, equal, direct, secret
and free suffrage, in accordance with the
electoral law.
(2) Organizations of citizens belonging to
national minorities, which fail to obtain the
number of votes for representation in
Parliament, have the right to one Deputy seat
each, under the terms of the electoral law.
Citizens of a national minority are entitled to
be represented by one organization only.
(3) The number of Deputies and Senators shall be
established by the electoral law, in proportion
to the population  of Romania.

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

In article >, 
s.com (T. M. Lutas) says:

>At the start of schooling one does not have a real language. Developing a
>language is one of the basic tasks of educating a child. A child is a 
>child and does not have "Hungarian" or "Romanian" stamped on their forehead
>on exit from the womb. In a truly ethnically blind society they would continue
>to be treated the same. Separate language schooling is a recipe for 
>differential treatment and differential rights.

I have to disagree.

1) Language is first used in the home. The child learns about language 
and life from the parents (other than in exceptional circumstances.) The 
*stamped on the forehead* comment is a misleading red-herring. Family life 
provides the real education of any child, based on my experience of having 
worked in schools and junior organizations of many different types in 
Britain for more than a decade. Schools provide the opportunity for study 
in special subjects (mostly other than language) that the parents might 
not otherwise be able to provide, or have the time to provide, plus the 
possibilities for comradeship with other children of similar age. The 
general successes demonstrated by home tutoring of children by educated 
parents over the huge failure rate in educational systems world-wide 
suggests that educational systems and schools still have a lot to learn 
about education. 
2) The *recipe for differential rights and treatment* comment reflects 
only your perception, i.e., the need to conform (or the need for anything 
different to be assimilated.) Do you betray your Ceaucescu era upbringing?

Liberate your shackled mind! Free yourself and accept others (whoever 
they may be) without fearing their differences!

Regards,

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!


lacko vagyok, teszt. lacko

 (T. M. Lutas) wrote:
>In article >, "%FNAME%"
> wrote:
>
>> I believe that the issue is why do we have to talk of the "rights of
>Hungarians" 
>> in the first place?  If Romania is a truly democratic nation, as it
>would like the 
>> rest of the world to believe, there should not be any differentiation
>between the 
>> rights of the different people living on its territory?  
>
>If Romania were truly ethnicity blind, the Hungarians would be jumping and
>shouting
>much more than they are now. There would be no Hungarian language schools
>since all
>citizens would have the same right to the same education which, of course
>would be
>done in the national language. The political system would not guarantee
>that any 
>ethnic minority would have a national representative in parliament no matter h
ow
>small. Privately hungarian ethnics would be able to fund what they want
>but they would
>not get any state support for their separate institutions because all
>people would
>be equal and thus having separate institutions would be a granting of
>greater rights
>to hungarians.
>
>As I read things right now, hungarians want more set asides and more
>special treatment
>not true ethnic neutral state action.
>

Do you really know the meaning of the words you are employing?  What is neutral
 about Romanians 
reading mostly nationalistic newspapers such as Romania Mare, and encouraging n
eo-fascist 
slogans, statements and activities through their support of people like Vadim T
udor.  How can you 
speak of Romania and "true ethnic neutral state action" when Romania has rehabi
litated a 
convicted war criminal such as Antonescu, and in the same time calls the Hungar
ians "hortisti" an 
allusion maybe to Horty who was never sentenced as a war criminal.  How dare yo
u speak of ethnic 
neutrality when your people continue to persecute Gypsies, Hungarians, and the 
few Jews that are 
still left by denigrating them publicly, in newspapers and other publications w
hose support you 
provide by continuing to buy and read them?  Where is your sense of decency in 
light of these 
facts?

>> Unless there truly is a 
>> difference, in the sense of "some people are created equal but some are
>more equal 
>> than others" which happens to be what I personally believe.
>
>> PS I truly hope and wish all Hungarians that Transylvania will not
>remain a "Romanian 
>> Province" 
>
>Thank you for making it so abundently clear that you really don't want equalit
y
>of rights in Romania but more rights for hungarians than romanians have in the
ir
>own country.
>
>DB

I want equality of rights for all people, but I also hope for justice.  Romania
 was never able 
to prove her claim to Transylvania from a historical standpoint.  She never had
 any right to 
it., The fact that through the resettlement policies of the former communist go
vernment more 
Romanians live there now than Hungarians speaks to absolutely nothing.  By the 
way, are you 
aware of how many Romanians in that region would prefere to be part of Hungary?
  The answer may 
surprize you.  May I remind you that Hungary had accept almost 40,000 Romanian 
refugees during 
the times of Ceausescu, some of whom she absorbed,, offered assistance to and h
elped them find 
their way to the West.  I doubt seriously that Romania would have done the same
.  This my friend 
is what being civilized is all about.  Take a look and learn.

IW
>-- 
>Romanian Political Pages now are available
>http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus
>

In article >,  (Peter Szaszvari) s
ays:
>
>In article >,
>    (Wally Keeler) wrote:
>>SZERELMESVERS
>>
>>Nem Tudom Miert Beszelek neked csillagokrol
>[...]
>
>En sem!
>I don't know but what if this poem is just simply bad (I mean the lack of 
>quality) ? It reminds me to the ones we used to write for the girls of the 
>same class into their little pink diaries when we were 13. It was really nice 
>in that time but it was quite a while ago...
>
>
>Szaszvari Peter
>(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)
>
>===================================================================<<<<<

Hello Peter,

I also remember. It was called " Emlek konyv". Oh, those were the "regi
szep idok!" 

MEP

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
                     EMAIL: 
                      WWW: http://www.aayh.org/
> ========================================================================


The Magyar Nap or Hungarian Festival on June 15 in Chicago will have a 
1 hour and 20 minute program directed by Kremer Sandor of Hungarians 
for Human Rights in Delvidek (HAHRD) and the Hungarian Club of Chicago. 
Mr. Kremer was formerly an actor in Szabadka, Delvidek.

The program will feature addresses by Mr. Kremer, Ludanyi Andras, 
Kovacs Istvan (Hungarian consulate), State of Illinois Governor Jim 
Edgar, and City of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley.  

Honorary guests of the Hungarian Festival will be representatives 
of Hungary's neighboring countries' organizations.  The nearby 
Hungarian communities in Indiana and Wisconsin have also been 
invited.  

The performers range in age from a dramatic 15 to 75, and although 
most are not actors, they are being coached by professionals.  Most of 
the performers are AAYH members and/or member of the 19sz. Hunyadi 
Matyas Cserkesz Csapat.  Through the works of well-known poets, these 
performers will be recanting our history from the settlement of the 
Carpathian Basin in 896 AD to today.

Fekete Gyula, who was just awarded a Ph.D. in music from Roosevelt 
University, is arranging the musical parts of the program.  Along 
with Father Somos of St. Stephen's, Mr. Fekete will be conducting a 
piano recital and he is working with Molnar Zita on a violin recital. 
Mr. Fekete is also working with the talented choir and trumpet 
quartet of the Hungarian Baptist Church. 

Specifically for this once in a lifetime event, the Chicago community 
has resurrected its folk-dance group, which will be performing a 
number never before seen by an audience in the US. This may be your 
first and last chance to see the group and their new dance!

If you have any questions regarding the festival, please write to 
Andrea Stetz at the following address:

Thank you to whoever forwarded this to me...it's about time he got the 
hint that no one wants him around.  He's probably off lying to someone 
about supposedly writing some sort of book.  Poor soc.culture.romanian--I 
hear they can't stand him either (oooohhhh, geeze-I didn't put in a 
metaphor!  Oh no!  Now Bali will try and chastise me by trying to 
pretend to be some sort of e-mail literary critic...what on earth could 
she criticize?  She's never demonstrated any sort of talent in order to 
be able to be awarded that privilege).

On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:

> Bye now.
> 
> If you want me, I'll be in soc.culture.romanian tormenting the
> Ceausescu-clones.
> 
> -- 
> Wally Keeler					Poetry
> Creative Intelligence Agency			is
> Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
> 
>

Does anyone know if there is a branch of Budapest Bank in or near Gyor?  
If so, does it have ATM access?  BTW, how many digits/characters do ATMs 
in Hungary require?  4? 5?  

Thanks!
Enike

Swahili:

'I Love You' = ni na ku penda

Wally Keeler wrote:
> 
> Bye now.
> 
> If you want me, I'll be in soc.culture.romanian tormenting the
> Ceausescu-clones.  
 Your best move and posting so far !Bye now! Don't call, we'll call you! 
           PK

In article >,  (Tamas Gaal = me...) writ
es:
|> I am looking for names, addresses, telephone/fax numbers of hotels
|> in Budapest - preferably those that you would recommend. ...

Due to helpful HIX folk (see the unofficial FAQ of SCM on HIX) and 
to more profound www searches (including a search engine) please find
enclosed an access list of numerous Hotels in Budapest. You will find
both small and expensive ones (from US$30 to US$600) by following the 
www links below.  I may submit a more comprehensive list onto 
TIPP SENDDOC soon.
There is some redundancy in the www addresses but this may serve.
I have checked these www locations, too (net-surfing by Netscape2).

My favourite location (simple but informative) is (from Mozaik Kft):

http://www.datanet.hu/budapest/utazas/hotel.htm

Then...

http://www.odin.net/hotels_h.htm
Astoria Béke Budapest Danubius-Thermal Erzsébet Flamenco Gellért
Hélia-Thermal Hungária Hilton Kempinski Liget Palatinus Ramada Stadion
Taverna...

http://www.hungary.com/Text/hudir/Enter/Travel/Hotels/

http://www.traveldiscounts.com/hoteldiscounts/data/hungary.html

http://www.odin.net/danubius/ramada/ramfolap.htm

The Pannonia Budapest Chain: Atrium Hyatt, Mercure Buda, Mercure Korona,
Novotel Centrum, Ibis Volga, Ibis Aero, EMKE, Nemzeti, Metropol
	http://www.hungary.com/pannonia/
	http://www.hungary.com/pannonia/budapest.cgi

Kempinski Hotel Corvinus Budapest Page
      Kempinski Hotel Corvinus Budapest. 7-8, Erzsebet ter Budapest
	Hungary, 1051 Tel: (36-1) 266-1000 Telex: 222299 
	Fax: (36-1) 266-2000 GDS Code: Please call nearest...
	http://www.interactive.line.com/lead/newhotels/51b.html

Budapest Marriott Hotel 
	V. Apáczai Csere János 	u. 4. 
	Budapest, Hungary 
	TEL: 36-1-266-7000 FAX: 36-1-266-5000 TLX: 22-5277 BUDHU.
	http://www.marriott.com/hungary/275headtext.html

IH Services in Hungary Hotels Flamenco
	Bolero Étterem. Nemzetközi és magyaros ételkülönlegességek,
	ízletes édességek,... 
	Hotel Flamenco Budapest. 
	H-1113 Budapest, Tas vezér u. 7. Hungary 
	Tel.: (36-1)161-2250 Fax: (36-1)165-8007
	E-mail : . 
	Das 4-Sterne HOTEL...
	http://www.odin.net/flamenco/flam_d.htm - size 2K - 19 Feb 96 

Hotel Gellért Budapest. H-1111 Budapest, Szt. Gellért tér	1. 
	Hungary Tel.: (36-1) 185-2200 Fax: (36-1) 166-6631 
	E-mail: ....
	http://www.odin.net/gellert/gellert.htm
	Rooms: 233 rooms, all with bath or shower, some
	with aircondition and each double with river/hillside view,
	direct dial AT&T... 
		http://www.odin.net/gellert/gellroom.htm
		http://www.odin.net/gellert/gellspa.htm - Spa/Pool Sport
	Food & Beverages - Oscar prize winner chef:
		http://www.odin.net/gellert/gellfood.htm

-- 

Regards,
Tamas

Gaál Tamás			

Swahili:

'I Love You' = ni na ku penda

Swahili:

'I Love You' = ni na ku penda

In article >,
Eniike  > wrote:
| Does anyone know if there is a branch of Budapest Bank in or near Gyor?  
| If so, does it have ATM access?  BTW, how many digits/characters do ATMs 
| in Hungary require?  4? 5?  
| 
| Thanks!
| Enike
Depends on  the bank/network.Genrally 4..

In article >,  
says...
>
[...]

 Dan Pop cites an unreferenced article:

>>Unless there truly is a difference, in the sense of "some people are 
>>created equal but some are more equal than others" which happens to be 
>>what I personally believe.
>
>The Transylvanian Hungarians also believe that they are more equal than
>others and keep asking for special rights.
>

Let's decode, for clarity, what these "special rights" typically mean in 
the eyes of many Romanians:

If the Hungarians have education in their mother tongue, it is a 
privilege because they have a broader selection of schools.

If there is Hungarian-language publishing, it is a privilege for 
Hungarians since Romanians cannot enjoy it. 

If there is a Hungarian venture (I mean a company owned in Hungary) in 
Romania, this creates a privileged situation for Hungarians since they 
can be suspected to prefer managers who can speak Hungarian to facilitate 
communication. Furthermore, if a Hungarian has a leading position in 
Romania (especially in the public service), this alone is a very 
dangerous situation because he/she can be suspected of giving 
unfair advantages to his/her Hungarian kins. 

If Hungarians speak Hungarian at a public place (e.g, a grocery store), 
they are in a privileged situation since Romanians cannot understand what 
they are talking about. Moreover, that Hungarian shopassistant is likely 
to give better bread to Hungarians. 

The only way to ensure equal rights to _everyone_ in Romania is to achive 
that Hungarians give up their Hungarian culture. Although this does not 
seem to be feasible in the immediate future (because of their high number 
and high concentration in some regions), significant progress can be 
made along the following lines (some important measures are already being 
implemented):

1. Hungarian schools should be turned to mixed Romanian-Hungarian schools 
under a "good Romanian" director. Although Hungarians can be allowed to 
learn some well-selected Hungarian poems and songs in their mother 
tongue, they shoud finally learn _real_ history (in Romanian) so that 
they realize how shameful their past is.

2. The reminders of Hungarian culture and history should be removed from 
the museums and city centers. No Hungarian language signs are allowable 
in public places.

3. The economic weight of Hungarians should be controlled. State property 
is better than private property in this respect. Hungarian-Romanian joint 
ventures are dangerous. Property nationalized from Hungarian institutions 
(especially church property) should not be returned. Several other 
measures can be envisaged with the aim that Hungarians be always aware 
that it does not pay well to be Hungarian in Romania. 

>
>Dan
>


Gyorgy