Subject: Re: no comment! with a comment
From: Gabor Barsai, 
Date: 31 Jul 1995 18:37:54 GMT
In article > Gabor
Barsai,  writes:
>In article >, 
> wrote:

[deletia]

>>I do read the newsgroup at least once in a while, but
>>I do not read every posting or every thread. Nor am I
>>blessed with a pachyderm's reputed memory, so I *still*
>>don't know.
>
>You don't know how sad I am to read that.

I don't know why my not reading each and every posting
should be a source of sorrow. Have I inadvertently offended
you by not reading everything posted?

>
>>Your response to a simple direct question is anything
>>but simple and direct. I suspect that your evasion is
>>longer than a brief explanation.
>
>In 3 sentences (since your memory seems to be limited):

Nay not "seems", but "is".

> in a previous post, I
>asked you what d.A. meant. You gave me an evasive answer. 
>So, I thought I'd return the favor.

Real favours do not need to be returned. They come
free of any obligation. Correct me if I misrecall, but
I thought I'd answered you by saying that I had already
answered the question in an earlier posting --- and did
I not offer to answer it again if you could not find the
earlier posting? 
When you repeated the question, I answered it dierctly. 

>
>Dima got kicked off the net due to his prejudiced postings (at
least as I've
>heard). As to what he posted to scm, it was always how terrible
Hungarians are,
>especially to Romanians. You seem very similar (but not with
respect to
>Romanians).A

List the occasions when I posted "prejudiced postings".
LIst the "prejudices" I have shown.

If you look back at my postings, you'll find that I have not
commenced new topics but have rather contributed by taking
issue with matters I considered to be false in someone else's
posting(s), or offering information in response to a question or
request. Furthermore, when posting "controversial" material, 
or at worst when challenged, I also posted citations and 
references, usually from an encyclopaedia, which I would have 
thought would be an acceptable first source.
In fact I have been chastised by some of the learned gentlemen for
using these references. I received gratuitous advice and a
sermon on how intelligent and educated people don't need to use
encyclopaedias and dictinaries in serious discussions. 
The only sources I used without explicit references were personal 
accounts from people who would not like their names or addresses 
published. In these cases I asked that anyone who wishes to verify 
(or disprove) my claims contact me and I would help them contact
my source directly. So far, no-one has done so.

On those occasions when presented purely personal views or
observations, I have made this explicitly clear by including
"It is my impression that.." or "I believe that.." or something 
similar.

Given that I have done this, I do not see how you can 
justly accuse me of prejudice in these postings.
Of course, if you can quote lines of my authorship to substantiate
such claims, please do so. I have asked the learned gentlemen
who contribute here to substantiate claims they have
made about views and attitudes they attributed to me which
I deny having. Their response has been to fail to provide
any evidence from my postings that I do harbour views they claim I
do. 
Perhaps their judicious "reading between the lines" is at fault.
After all, I  usually write single-spaced text, so there is not
much room between the lines. In any event, "reading between
the lines" is a venture fraught with many risks, not the least
of which is projecting one's own foibles, failings and fears
into other people's mouths and minds.

>
>>I doubt that any remedial class in English is necessary, for
>>claiming that racialism is alive and well in Hungarian society,
>>that it is one of the threads in the history of Hungary is in no
>>way shape or form *blaiming* Hungary for anything.
>
>Please, at least take a spelling class, then.

Spelling was a compulsory class in primary school. I did very well.
Unfortunately stenography was not, and I haven't taken any courses
in typing, so I make typing errors. My apologies for any distress
this failing of mine may occasion in a soul as sensitive and
fragile as yours.

>
>>Your extrapolation is specious and false. My attachment to
>>Hungarian background does not blind me to the flaws I see in
>>"Hungarian culture" or "Hungarian society". I am sure that
>>the learned gentlemen of this group do not hold against
>>Hunagry or Hungarian society that it was part of the Warsaw
>>Pact or allied with Germany in World War II. These unpleasant
>>facts will not cease to be true no matter how much any of
>>us wish it otherwise. This is just the same as the fact that
>>any German who wishes to take pride in Goethe and Beethoven
>>must also come to terms with Hitler and Bismarck.
>
>So why couldn't you write this in the first place? 

I did. I have also expressed these views both in private
communication with other contributors and posted them in
this group and others as well.

>Judging by posts,
>(obviously, reading it in American, not English), you do nothing
but put
>negative judgment on Hungarian society. i

Examples?

>This is the first time you did not reply in a sarcastic tone. 

Wrong. It may be the first time *you* have read a note of mine
you do not find "sarcastic", but if you were to trace back my
contributions, you will find that I have remained friendly and 
accommodating until a I have been subjected to invective or abuse.
Even then I have remained civil and stayed within the bounds of 
politeness, even though I have made no attempt to hide my contempt
for the invective and derision. 

>This is the first time you have come out of the
>shell you seem to project on the net. 

Wrong again. I have answered all questions asked about myself both
in private e-mail and publicly. I have asked those with whom
I have been engaged in email correspondence to not publish
information about myself in such correspondence because I 
believe that the substance should be attended to, rather than 
the person who posts it. Thus if Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pope 
John-Paul II or Bertrand Russell were to say "2 + 2 = 4", it would 
not make one iota difference to the truth of the statement. I would 
rather focus on the content.

But when asked publicly, I have answered --- and shall continue to 
answer --- frankly.


>So at least I've succeded in getting
>to know what you're after. 

What is it that you think I'm "after"?

>So I have to write garbage in order for you to
>reply? 
>

If you feel an irresistible urge to write garbage,
do indulge it. It is good to get these things out into
the open. Anyway, it seems to come so naturally to you.
But it would be sheer folly to attribute to the garbage you 
post any sensible response you receive. If anything, put it down 
to the patience, indulgence and benevolence of the person 
responding.

> You can't answer me seriously unless I get you upset?

Not true on two counts.
In the first place I have answered you seriously on each occasion.
In the second place, your postings have not "upset" me. If anything
I found your outburst boorish and quaint. The accusation(s) you
levelled at me were a source of great amusement to a number of 
people who know me personally and saw them. 

>>The same is true in Australia. I have lived here a while.
>>I and my ancestors were on a different continent as the
>>indigenous peoples here were ruthlessly slaughtered. We thus
>>bear none of the responsiblity for the carnage and blatant
>>racialism. We are neverthelss burdenend by it, for our
>>being here, our living here is, in part at least, a consequence
>>of these deeds. Thus I try here to do what I can to counter
>>racialiam, whether it be directed against the Kooris and Murris
>>and Islanders or against Asian immigrants or against such
>>exotic beasts as immigrants from uHngary.
>
>Please. At least check your spelling, if nothing else. 

Thee problem with spelling chequers is that they ah knot
reliable. It is vary easy two right aye text full of mistakes
witch ah spelling chequer wood knot detect. Butt if yew insist,
eye will make shore that eye use won.

>Once again, why couldn't you write this previously? 

Eye have posted it before, and eye have posted similar
material before as well. Moreover, anyone who has had an exchange
with me via e-male could tell ewe that eye make know
bones about such views of mine. Quiet the opposite.

>I doubt you really care, but, at least your posts
>make more sense in this light (at least to me).
>

Eye hope that sum misconceptions have now bean cleared up.

>>>>: >d.A.
>>>>:
>>>>: So what does this d.A. stand for?
>>I spent some time in Switzerland, where I was repeatedly
>>accused of the most heinous crime known in that country,
>>viz., of being "a foreigner". I furiously protested my
>>innocence, for it is blatantly clear that I am *not* a
>>foreigner, I was merely in a foreign country. Anyway,
>>the German for "the foreigner" is "der Auslaender", which
>>is conveniently abbreviated to "d.A." A synonym for
>>"der Auslaender" which I heard frequently is "das Arschloch",
>>which is rendered into English by "the arsehole". Fortuitously,
>>it is also abbreviated by "d.A." This latter epithet is one
>>I find myself using to refer to myself, especially when I bother
>>to provide detailed answers to people who evade answering simple
>>direct questions.
>
>Thank you, kind Sir. Now, why couldn't you write this in a previous 

Eye have, when asked before.

>

[deletia]

>>Julius Sumner Miller was trying to elucidate the difference between
>>the state of being an ignoramus and the fact of being innocent (as
>>an antonym of sophisticated). If you do not understand his
>>statement, then perhaps the advice you so readily proffered is one
>>you should heed yourself.
>
>Well, if we go by the dictionary definitions, what Mr. Miller said
makes no
>sense. 

If wee go bye dictionary definitions, very little of common
language wood make cents. Wee speak of a "splitting headache"
ore being "Hungary enough too eat aye hoarse". Little wood
remain of humour ore poetry, ore literature were wee two only
use words accrding to dictionary definitions. Aye measure
or "poetic licence" must surely bee legitimate, especially
inn aye case of polemics.

>He said ignorance (want of knowledge) is a crime. Simplicity (being
>guileless) is great.
>If you confuse ignorance with stupidity (although, an educated man
like you
>doesn't do that), well, maybe you should take more than a remedial
course in
>spelling, maybe you should learn the meaning of the word, then try
to form
>sentences.

Well, yore comments ah directed at thee wrong audience, four eye
was butt reporting thee words of an orator who was inveighing
against thee refusal of many to seek answers at thee same time
as deriding those who did knot yet no. If thee literary stile
and poetic license is beyond the scope of yore imagination, then
don't fret, don't worry yore pretty little head about it. Thee
person eye quoted is, as far as eye no, know longer with us.


[deletia]

>>>>By the way, I am some disturbed by your apparent disparaging of
>>>>Hungarians. Perhaps it is just one of the differences between
>>>>American and English, but reading your posting as if it were in
>>>>English, one could easily gain the impression that you think
>>>>all people from Hungary are "low-life". Being a native of
>>>
>>>Oh, reading your posts in American, I thought you considered all
of
>>>us racists.
>>>So that's why I thought I'd be polite, and save you the trouble of
>>>calling me that.
>>I certainly do *not* consider all of "you" racist. Your
>
>You don't know how happy I am to read that. I was really worried as
to your
>opinion.

It is aye mistake too attach sew much importance two my opinions.
Were eye inn yore position, eye wood knot have lost any sleep
over d.A.'s opinions.

>
>>concluding that I do  has more to do with a lack of training
>>in logic --- or having forgotten it --- than with Churchilian
>>differences: Even if a society is racialist, it does *not* follow
>>that *every*  member of that society shares racialist views.
>
>Well, my logic works like this: you wrote that you generalize (i.e.
Hungarian
>society is racist) but give plenty of examples to the contrary
(maybe not
>verbatim, but this was the idea behind your post; since I do not
save your
>posts, I can't prove it, but it was about a year ago). Since then,
you only
>wrote about how racist Hungarian society is, with maybe 1 example
to the
>contrary. I believe 1 example to the contrary does not qualify as
"plenty",
>although it may be more than enough for you, since it is a relative
term. Once
>again, I cannot prove it, since I don't save your posts, neither
does our
>server, so I remain open to your wrath.
>

My impression is that Hungarian society, like many others, is
ay society with an undeniable, strong racialist streak evident
throughout much of its history too this very day. Much of
this racialism is knot even recognised two bee that bye
most Hungarians, being cloaked in far maw "respectable"
terms.  This does *knot* mean that *every* Hungarian is
aye racialist, just as the fact that gridiron is an 
American game does *knot* mean that every American plays
ore likes ore watches gridiron.

>>Moreover, I do not recall referring to American society as
>>racialist. When did I?
>
>How does American society come into this? 

When yew rote "us", it was unclear wether yew meant
"us Hungarians" or "us Northern Americans". 

>Where did I write that you called
>American society racist?
>
>>>>Please share your insights, and maybe you shall convince me
>>>>to anglicise my name.
>>>
>>>As you desire.
>>>
>>I have no desire to do so, but if I am to be held to be
>>a kindred sould to numerous contributors here on account
>>of my monicur, then I may have to give the matter serious
>>thougt, for I may not enjoy much of a reputation, but I
>>prefer to preserve what there is of it.
>
>As you desire. I can't make up your mind for you. Indecision must
be terrible.

Indecision can bee a terrible problem. Eye have been trying two 
help Bea overcome her chronic indecision. She relies far two much 
on me two make decisions. Still, she's improving, and she is 
thankful fore thee support and assistance eye have provided. She 
agrees with yew that being sew indecisive was terrible.


>You may desire to get off your pedestal, though, and get your head
out of the
>clouds.

Please don't think I'm knot grateful fore yor gratuitous advice,
but it is sorely misplaced. Eye may be a pedantic prick, if yew'll
exuse my slipping into the vernacular, butt eye have resisted being
placed on a pedestal as long as eye can remember. And eye can't
bare too have my head inn the clouds --- eye have aye problem both
with heights and lack of oxygen.

Sew. Thee spelling chequer has accepted awl of my knew text!

Now, as I recall, our exhange began by your making a comment on
an exchange between me and someone else. Please correct me
if my recollection is wrong. As I recall, your contribution
was not exactly friendly, or even neutral, but rather hostile
and unfriendly. 

I recall responding with a civil note which did little to mask
my contempt for what you had written. 

You have said on several occasions in your last note things like
"If only you (d.A.) would have posted that earlier" (I paraphrase!)",
indicating that your apparent hostility would not have then been 
aroused.

The sad fact is that --- as I have pointed out above --- each of
those "if only you would have said that before"'s referred to
things I *have* posted earlier.

Thus, it seems to me that you have jumped to false conclusions
about my views and attitudes, conclusions whose falsity is readily
ascertained by looking at the texts of my authorship which have 
been posted. It seems to me to be gross temerity and gall on
your behalf to take me to task for views which you falsely
ascribe to me.


d.A.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sorry I messed up and posted the same thing twice, so here is the second 
part of your request.

---------------------------------298571431310263
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The Legend of the Golden Hind
by Alfred Hamori

A long time ago, thousands of years ago, in a distant land in
Asia there was once a great and powerful kingdom. It was bordered
by tall mountains in the north and a great southern sea in the
south. From the mountains, two mighty rivers flowed southwards to
the sea watering the flat lowlands. The people who lived there
were famous for their arts, sciences and wisdom. They lived in
abundance and plenty.

It was following the great flood that the people from the
northern mountains settled here and founded a new land. The king
of the land was the giant hunter Nimrod, the descendant of the
great king (Tana in Hungarian, or Etana in Sumerian,
the king who lived in the 3 rd millenium B.C. and according to
the legend of Gilgamesh he established the city of Kish and the
first Messopotamian empire, following the flood) Nimrod founded
great buildings and cities and founded the great pyramid of the
city of Babilon 201 years after the flood  as a haven against
future flooding @foot(Simon Kezai, Gesta Hungarorum, ca 1282) and
as a temple to god.

Nimrod was a mighty warrior king who also expanded his empire to
include much of the northern and eastern territories and he and
his people moved there, to the land of Evilath, following the
confusion of languages. @foot(Simon Kezai, Gesta Hungarorum, ca
1282) @foot(according to Berrosus the Babilonian historian, Belas
[Bel Nimrud] ruled for 56 years 130 years following the flood,
and built the tower of Babel in the land of Sinear to the height
of a mountain.) This land was latter called east Persia, and lay
next to Northern India.

Here he married his first wife Eneth and she later bore him two
twin sons called Hunor and Magor. He later had other wives and
from them were born other sons and daughters who became the
ancestors of the Parthians. @foot(In the medieval version it was
the Persians, the inheritors of the land of Iran, that are
mentioned instead of the aboriginal Scythic Parthians. In other
medieval references though it is the Parthians which are
mentioned as being related.) The language of these people was
similar to the Hungarians but not quite the same. 

His first born sons were his pride and they spent much time with
their father, growing up in the palace and later they accompanied
him on his many hunts. Nimrod was a famous and great hunter who
loved the (Bible, "like Nimrod, mighty hunter before
the lord") During one of his hunting expeditions he took his sons
with him. During the hunt he spotted some game and separated from
his sons to pursue it. The two young men continued their own
search and came across a wonderous beast, a great horned doe,
which shone in multicolor lights and it's antlers glittering from
light. @foot(Mahmud Terdjuman, Tarihi Ungurus "The history of the
Hungarians", 1456 translated by Joseph Blaskovich, Prage, 1982) 

Enchanted by the heavenly beast they gave chase to it. The animal
lead them across glades and medows onward toward the west. At
dusk the beast vanished so the two princes and their men camped
for the night. At dawn the hind reappeared and the chase
continued afresh. It lead them through foreign lands and across
the mountains of Adjem, through wild and dangerous swamps of
Meotis @foot(The Sea of Azov, an inlet of the Black Sea, was
associated with Meotis because of the common ancient name of this
sea and because the Magyars and Huns lived there before their
settling in Hungary. It is unlikely however that this was the
original sea of the ancient legend) until they entered a
beautiful bountiful country. Here the hind lead them to a lake
and jumped into it and disappeared. This swampy land, called
Meotis, is surounded by the sea on all sides except one where a
shallow swampy land connects it to the mainland making it
difficult to enter. It is rich in birds, fish and game and is
situated on the borders of Persia.

The two young men were filled with sadness and remorse because of
the loss of the hind. They returned to their father and asked
him to build for them a temple at the sight where they could
retreat and contemplate and prepare themselves. They then lived
in the temple for 5 years, and on the 6th year they were longing
to return to the world when a great teacher came to them and
thought them the ways of being a great (Terdjuman
Mahmud, Tarihi Ungurus, 1456)

They and their men then left the temple and scouted the nearby
territories. In the evening they camped and in the morning they
awoke to the sound of music. They followed the source of the
music to a clearing in the forrest where they spied the dancing
and singing of young maidens who were celebrating the festival of
the horn. The name of a hind is "horned" in Hungarian and this
celebration was of the hind. The maidens in the clearing were the
daughters of the Bulars and amongst them were the two beautiful
daughters of the king, Dula.
@foot(Simon Kezai, Gesta Hungarorum, ca1282)

The two young men were so enchanted by the two princesses that
they resolved to marry them, so they and their men kidnapped all
the women and married them according to their custom. They
settled on a great island in the lake, which was well protected.
Their descendants multiplied and populated the nearby lands,
founding the 108 clans of the Scythian nation. @foot(108 was a
"holy number" related to the astronomical rate of precession of
the equinoxes.) The descendants of Hunor and one of the princesses
became the nation of the Huns, while the descendants of Magor and
the other princess became the nation of the Magyars. 

The land of the Scythians stretched from north of the Black Sea
to Central Asia as far as the city of Samarkand.  Their country
bordered the country of their father on the north and east.
However a long time after the death of their father the kingdom
of Nimrod fell to a foreign ruler from the west. This nation in
later ages became Persia. @foot(See the Iranian legends of the
struggles between Iran and Turan)

-------------------
This is but the tip of the iceberg, because there is a lot more 
corroborating information about this legend from ancient Messopotamia.

---------------------------------298571431310263--

Subject: Wanted: license plates
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Summary: 
Keywords: 

Hi,

I collect license plates. I'm looking for license plates from East Europe 
countries like Bulgaria, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Lietuva, 
Lituania, etc. I also look for plates from other Europe countries i.e. 
Austria, Monaco, Italy, Vatican, Bosna, Croatia, etc. And of course I'm 
looking for current ('90s) US plates.
Please e-mail me at: 

Thanx in advance,

YELLKY

-- 
  Grzegorz "YELLKY" Labe         E-MAIL: 
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                 
"To beer or not to beer ?"
                SHAKESBEER          WWW: http://www.man.katowice.pl/~labe

T. Kocsis ) wrote:
: In article > ,  writes:
: >>I believe that you flamed me for different reason. 
: 
: >My point was simply that your taking the mickey out of someone
: >whose Hungarian was flawed invites, even deserves, that your
: >English be subjected to the same scrupulous examination.  
: 
: I don't know what you mean by that. Would you be more accurate
: in telling me when and to whom i did such thing ? I don't remem-
: ber doing it, and you know i feel it is unlikely that i did such a
: thing that i consider a below-the-belt action.

I didn't keep copies of everything until very recently, and even now
I've discarded most things again, but my very first posting of mine
was in response to your comments on someone's poor Hungarian.
Your comments (in English) were arrogant and patronising, to put
it kindly. I responded to that by pointing out that your English
is (understandably) deficient and that it is to your credit
that persist anyway.

: 
: However i used to correct Hungarian texts when i am (we are )
: explicitly *asked* for.
: 
: >I don't consider that "flaming", but perhaps others do.
: >If it is "flaming", I shall have to bear the odium of
: >applying the standards you apply to others' posting to yours.
: >Mea culpa.
: 
: You were not seen and read around s.c.m for a while, i think
: for months. Then you suddenly ran out of nowhere and attacked
: me and i can not figure it out why. 

See above. Your posting was to someone who had postd a child's ditty.

: I can not connect your hostile
: behaviour against me to any of my special activity around that
: time.

The hostility is something you perceived quite correctly.
I think it was out of place to chastise the other poster for
his/her deficient Hungarian.

If your comments only sounded so abrasive and offensive because
of your poor command of English, then I apologise unreservedly
for responding to what you actually wrote rather than what you 
meant to write.

: I was flamed earlier, not only once, because of my shortcomings
: in English. Until know it usually happened when the  other side
: ran out of arguments. I did not care too much about, as you see i
: am still around, i did not drown myself into the Zurich see yet
: because of this.

For your information, Zurich is in the see of Chur, although there
are moves afoot to establich a see of Zurich as well.

d.A.

*** Greetings from the Hungarian-American List ***
      ***      http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/       ***
      ***       mailto:          ***


RUSSIA CONDEMNS CROATIAN OFFENSIVE. A statement issued by the Russian
Foreign Ministry on 5 August harshly condemned the recent Croatian
military offensive against Serb-held areas of Croatia, ITAR-TASS
reported. The statement complained that "Zagreb's preparations did not
receive the proper assessment," and that Russian warnings about Croatian
intentions had gone "unheard." It added that Russia would insist that
the UN Security Council adopt a "strict and unbiased response." Vladimir
Zhirinovskii, leader of the Russian Liberal Democratic Party, criticized
the government response as insufficient, telling journalists on 5 August
that "if Russia had another president, the Russian army would already be
in there and no one would be able to touch the Serbs." Duma deputy
Vladimir Averchev, of the Yabloko faction, said Russia had no moral
standing to criticize Croatia because Russian actions in Chechnya are
similar to the Croatian offensive against ethnic Serb separatists. --
Scott Parrish, OMRI, Inc.

SECURITY EXPERT: U.S. PROGRAM THREATENS NUCLEAR ARMS CONTROL. Anton
Surikov, an adviser at the Institute for Defense Studies, told ITAR-TASS
on 4 August that U.S. plans to develop a new anti-ballistic missile
system could prompt Russia to reconsider its obligations to cut its
nuclear arsenal. Surikov was commenting on the recent U.S. Senate
decision to increase funding for ABM programs. He warned that moves like
this could prompt Russia to "refrain from ratifying the START-2 treaty
and reconsider some provision under START-1." -- Doug Clarke, OMRI, Inc.

EAST EUROPEAN TROOPS ARRIVE IN U.S. FOR PFP EXERCISE. Soldiers from 14
former communist states have arrived in the U.S. to participate in a
three-week exercise within the framework of NATO's Partnership for Peace
(PfP) program, international media reported on 7 August. Some 4,000
troops will take part in "Cooperative Nugget 95," which includes one
week of training and orientation and a two-week peacekeeping exercise.
Soldiers from Albania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary,
Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia,
Ukraine, and Uzbekistan will train with troops from the U.S., Canada,
and Great Britain. "Cooperative Nugget 95" is the first PfP exercise on
U.S. soil. -- Stefan Krause, OMRI, Inc.

LATVIA DEBATES SENDING UNIT TO CROATIA. The Saeima on 3 August began
debating sending a Latvian armed forces unit as part of the Danish UN
peacekeeping mission in Croatia, BNS reported the following day. Prime
Minister Maris Gailis noted that Lithuania and Estonia already have such
units in Croatia. Latvia's refusal to do the same could endanger
military cooperation between the Baltic States and possibly end Western
support for establishing a Baltic peacekeeping battalion. Christian
Democratic Union deputy Anita Stankevica opposed sending the unit,
arguing that Latvia would be sending half-trained men to where no one
wanted to go. The Saeima will make a decision on sending the unit on 9
August. -- Saulius Girnius, OMRI, Inc.

FIRST U.S.-LITHUANIAN MILITARY EXERCISES. The first-ever U.S.-Lithuanian
peacekeeping exercises began on 4 August at the Rukla training center in
central Lithuania, BNS reported. The three-week exercise, called "Amber
Hope '95," is being financed by the U.S. government and will involve 140
Lithuanian soldiers commanded by 10 American instructors. The exercises
will take place in two stages. The first will focus on using
communication equipment, setting up observation posts, reconnoitering
areas, and defusing mines. The second begins on 20 August with a
ceremony to be attended by top Lithuanian government officials, army
leaders, and foreign diplomats. The soldiers will practice freeing
captured civilians, shooting, mining, escorting convoys, and other
activities. -- Saulius Girnius, OMRI, Inc.

CZECH POLITICIANS ON WAR IN CROATIA. President Vaclav Havel on 6 August
expressed support for Croatia's military offensive in Krajina, Czech
media reported. He argued that Zagreb has waited long enough for the
international community to settle the conflict between Croatia and the
rebel Krajina Serbs. When the international community proved unable to
enforce or negotiate such a settlement, "Croatia decided for military
action aimed at renewing the integrity of its territory," Havel said.
Responding to the killings of two Czech soldiers during the offensive on
5 August, Havel said he was in favor of withdrawing the Czech battalion
from Croatia. Czech Foreign Minister Josef Zieleniec, however, said on 6
August that Zagreb's military action was premature because the
possibilities for a negotiated settlement had not yet been exhausted.
"At the same time, we realize that [the offensive] is "an action within
the boundaries of a sovereign state," Zieleniec commented. -- Jiri Pehe,
OMRI, Inc.

SLOVAK PRESIDENT IN U.S. Michal Kovac, on a seven-day official visit to
the United States, received an award from the American Bar Association
in Chicago on 5 August for "his role in implementing political reform in
Slovakia after it became independent following the collapse of
Czechoslovakia in 1992," Slovak and international media reported. Kovac
told journalists the previous day that he considers the prize to have
been awarded to "all democratic forces in Slovakia that have striven for
democratization and the rule of law." According to the president, the
road toward building a democratic society, the rule of law, and a market
economy in Slovakia "is irreversible." -- Jiri Pehe, OMRI, Inc.

SERBS SIGN SURRENDER AGREEMENT. Croatian Serb forces on 7 August agreed
to what the BBC called a surrender. They will hand over their heavy
weapons to the UN at four control points--in Topusko, Glina, Zirovac,
and Dvor --and then cross into Bosnia. They will be permitted to keep
their hand weapons, but the Croats soon charged that the UN was letting
them take a number of big guns, too. Croatian spokesmen said earlier
that the "Republic of Serbian Krajina" has ceased to exist. All roads in
Sector South are open to traffic. In eastern Slavonia, Serbs declared a
war alert and exchanged artillery salvoes with the Croats. Also in the
night of 6-7 August, two Bosnian Serb aircraft from Banja Luka attacked
a petrochemical plant at Kutina, in central Croatia, Reuters reported. A
rocket assault on Karlovac wounded five, and an air raid took place
against Nova Gradiska on 7 August. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

TUDJMAN VISITS KNIN. Hina on 6 August reported that Croatian President
Franjo Tudjman, paying a triumphal visit to the former capital of
Krajina, said that the Croats' victory means "more than just conquering
Croatian land, this means the creation of conditions for the stability
of the Croatian state for centuries to come." The town fell on the
morning of the previous day when Serbian units broke and fled before
advancing Croatian troops. There was widespread destruction following a
Croatian artillery barrage that began on 4 August, in the wake of which
the Krajina civilian and military leadership escaped to Bosnian Serb
territory. Reports of the death or injury of Krajina "President" Milan
Martic have not been confirmed. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

"OPERATION STORM" WAS NO MISNOMER. Croatian spokesmen on 6 August said
they have completed 80% of their objectives and will wrap things up by
the end of 7 August. The BBC quoted UN officials as agreeing with the
Croats. The myth of Serbian military prowess evaporated in the southern
part of Krajina, which the Croats easily overran. The northern area
proved to be tougher; but by the end of 6 August, Petrinja, Slunj,
Plitvice and its national park, and the Udbina airfield were in Croatian
hands, according to Hina. There were reports of Serbian artillery
attacks against Osijek, Vinkovci, and other Croatian areas in eastern
Slavonia, but Bosnian Serb centers such as Drvar and Trebinje were also
reportedly in a state of alert. Spanish Radio on 5 August said that the
Serbs shelled Mostar, not far from where Spanish peacekeepers are
stationed. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

"BIHAC IS SAVED." This is how Croatian spokesmen on 6 August described
the importance of Operation Storm for the embattled northwest Bosnian
enclave. International media noted that the Bosnian Fifth Army Corps
under General Atif Dudakovic broke through at Trzacke Rastele to join up
with Croatian forces. This movement and the advances of the Croats left
Krajina cut into several pieces. The Croatian role in saving Bihac was a
main factor in Washington's reluctance to criticize Croatia for
launching the operation. Secretary of State Warren Christopher even
spoke of "beneficial results." Serbia's traditional allies--Russia,
France, and Great Britain--led the field in condemning Zagreb, but the
Security Council and EU mediator Carl Bildt also added their criticism.
A Croatian UN spokesman replied that "Croatia is not the problem;
Croatia is the solution," the BBC reported on 5 August. Hina added that
Foreign Minister Mate Granic slammed Bildt in a letter that accused the
mediator of "a complete lack of political wisdom" both in recent days
and throughout the course of his work in the former Yugoslavia. --
Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

WHAT NEXT? Maj.-Gen. Ivan Tolj, the Croatian Defense Ministry's
spokesman, told Croatian media on 6 August that eastern Slavonia will be
reintegrated peacefully now that the Serbs have seen what the Croatian
army can do. The BBC noted, however, that there were several incidents
and fatalities as UN peacekeepers were caught in crossfire and at least
one Dane and two Czechs were killed. Mlada fronta dnes on 7 August
reported that the Czechs died after the Serbs hijacked the rescue
vehicle sent for them. What exactly happened in some other incidents
remains unclear. The biggest problem for the UN , however, appears to be
the flight of most of the Krajina Serbs. Croatian Radio appealed to them
to stay, and Hina said on 6 August that some did. But Serbian media
urged the Serbs to leave, and the UN expects that the largest single
migration of the Wars of the Yugoslav Succession will be the result. One
estimate said the total could go as high as 200,000, the BBC noted.
Bosnian government sources said they feared the Serbs were deliberately
bringing Krajina's panicked population to Bosnia to offset their
manpower shortages there. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

MILOSEVIC CONDEMNS CROATIA. Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic,
following meetings in Belgrade with UN mediator Thorvald Stoltenberg,
issued a statement saying "it has become apparent that Croatia
represents the biggest threat to peace in the Balkans . . . ; [the rump
Yugoslavia] justly expects that the international community takes action
in keeping with its proclaimed principles and commitment to peace," the
International Herald Tribune reported on 5-6 August. Meanwhile, federal
rump Yugoslav authorities on 6 August urged the UN Security Council to
undertake "urgent action" against Croatia, AFP reported. -- Stan
Markotich, OMRI, Inc.

BELGRADE ON WAR FOOTING? AFP on 6 August reported that the rump
Yugoslavia was fortifying its defenses along the border with Croatia.
Eye-witnesses the previous day reported having observed "a column of
armored troop transport vehicles and other military vehicles . . .
[leaving] the barracks of Banjica in Belgrade, headed for the Croatian
border." Meanwhile, Belgrade has reportedly ordered the partial
mobilization of specialized and elite units. -- Stan Markotich, OMRI,
Inc.

SESELJ DEMANDS BOMBING OF ZAGREB. Vojislav Seselj, alleged war criminal
and leader of the Serbian Radical Party, has urged bomb attacks on
Zagreb and Osijek. Speaking one day after being released from prison,
Seselj claimed that "the Serbian traitor (President) Slobodan Milosevic"
is refraining from a military response because he has reached a deal
with Croatian President Franjo Tudjman whereby the Croats capture Knin
in exchange for their giving up claims on eastern Slavonia, BETA
reported on 4 August. Seselj added that Milosevic is seeking the
"destruction of the political and military leadership of the Republic of
Serbian Krajina and the Republic of Srpska." Seselj was arrested after
clashes with police at an anti-Milosevic demonstration in Gnjilan on 2
June. -- Fabian Schmidt, OMRI, Inc.
  
[As of 1200 CET]
[As of 12:00 CET]
Compiled by Victor Gomez
Compiled by Jan Cleave

This material was reprinted with permission of the Open Media 
Research Institute, a Prague-based nonprofit organization.
               (http://www.omri.cz/)

       Copyright (C) 1995 Open Media Research Institute, Inc.
                    All rights reserved.

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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 wrote:
:      wally keeler said and drew:
:      >Mark Cristian showing his Philipino maid what 
:      >Romaniacs did with their 30 watt light bulbs
:      >when the candles crashed from a heatsink failure.
:       
:                      ---,_,----
:                     /    |     \
:                    /     *      \
:                   (      @@      )
:                   /   _/-||-\_   \
:                  /   '/  ||  \`   \
:                 /    /   ()   \    \
:                /    /|        |\    \
:                /   / |        | \   \
:               /   / /  o    o  \'\   \
:              /  '/  (          )  \  `\
:              <_ ' `--`___'`___'--' ` _>
:             /  '        / = \       `  \
:         ___/  /        (  v  )       \  \___ 
:         \ /  /        @| o o |@       \  \ /
:          \ /           //////          \  /
:        
:      >Poontang dinner in ole Mindanao!!! OOOeeeeee!!!!
:      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
:      
:      right on, wally.......
:      but, how do we know it's not you?.....you know, they say all asses 
:      look the same.....
:      -cristian 

You have to look carefully at the sphincter. If there are small grooves 
in the musculature, then it's you. If there are small slivers of wood 
there, then it's mine.

:      ps: like your poetry, though.....<seriously>......how about some more 
:      samples?.....

Oh god, you shouldn't say this publicly. If we start to exhibit some 
mutual respect, we'll loose the SCR audience. Oh the hell with them, it's 
been a gas! I've got some scorch marks [Marks] on my butt to prove it. 
You light up my life. You are so good at flaming, Romania would never 
need a nuclear reactor to light upthe country with 100 watt bulbs if you 
would just move there and pass wind near the ploesti oil refineries (are 
they still running?)
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Me and a friend of mine are coming to Hungary (Lake Balaton) next month.
More specifically, we will be staying in Balatonfured from September 5
until September 11. We are from Belgium (Dutch speaking part of the
country).

We would appreciate it if someone could give us any ideas about visiting
this city (and surrounding area). Are there any interesting or amusing
places we shouldn't miss? (Besides Balatonfured, some daytrips will also
be organized for us, i.e. Keszthely, Heviz, Veszprem, Herend and of course
Budapest. But for these excursions, we will have a guide.)

It would be even nicer if we could have the opportunity to meet someone
who is living or working in Balatonfured and who is willing to show us
around or just have a chat with us about Hungarian customs (or other
things) during a dinner in a cosy restaurant, or whatever.

Thanks,

Hans Gillijns

AND Books ) wrote:
:  wrote:
: : Subject: Re: no comment! question
: : From: T. Kocsis, 
: : Date: 11 Jul 1995 15:23:43 GMT
: : In article > T. Kocsis,
: :  writes:
: 
: pleez take this drivel elswhere!

If you do not like our exchange, don't read it.
Until this becomes a moderated groups, such drivel as
this, like much other garbage, is sure to keep appearing.

: 
: Kocsis you are outa your league here... ibokor is K2... you be a kame or sand
 
: dune.... all of which iz not worth it...
: 
: peace --- beka!


I like frogs, too! We have quite a few in our garden which
bury themselves under the soil, although not very deeply.
I don't know what variety of frog they are, but it surprised
me, because our fence is too high for them to clear and
we are separated from the creek only by a stretch of parkland.
Since you brought up the subject of frogs, do you know what
species these could be?

d.A.

***[Greetings from Hungarian-American HyperNews]***
  ***[       http://mineral.umd.edu/hahn/        ]***



The Bard Music Festival: Bela Bartok and His World, will
explore the musical world of the Hungarian composer and his
influrences and contemporaries. The Festival will Present
ten concerts and four panel discussions over two weekends,
August 11-13 and August 18-20, 1995, at Bard College, 90 miles
north of New York City in Annandale-on-Hudson, NY. Concerts
include recital, chamber, choral, and orchestral programs
featuring the American Symphony Orchestra, Leon Botstein, 
conductor, and featured soloists. Concert of Hungarian folk
music will feature the ensemble Muszikas, from Budapest, with 
singer Marta Sebestyen. Panel discussions will examine Bartok
and folk music, his early years, other topics. For information
call (914) 758-3226.

From:  (Wally Keeler)
     Subject: Re: re. from PANON(ESCU) to mark ANON(ESCU)
     Message-ID: >
     Followup-To: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.romanian
     Organization: Toronto Free-Net
     X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
     References: >
     Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 11:37:02 GMT
     Lines: 49
     Xref: newshub.sdsu.edu soc.culture.magyar:14289 
     soc.culture.romanian:23993
     
      wrote:
     :      >wally keeler said and drew:
     :      >Mark Cristian showing his Philipino maid what 
     :      >Romaniacs did with their 30 watt light bulbs
     :      >when the candles crashed from a heatsink failure.
     :       
     :                      ---,_,----
     :                     /    |     \
     :                    /     *      \
     :                   (      @@      )
     :                   /   _/-||-\_   \
     :                  /   '/  ||  \`   \
     :                 /    /   ()   \    \
     :                /    /|        |\    \
     :                /   / |        | \   \
     :               /   / /  o    o  \'\   \
     :              /  '/  (          )  \  `\
     :              <_ ' `--`___'`___'--' ` _>
     :             /  '        / = \       `  \
     :         ___/  /        (  v  )       \  \___ 
     :         \ /  /        @| o o |@       \  \ /
     :          \ /           //////          \  /
     :        
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     :      >right on, wally.......
     :      >but, how do we know it's not you?.....you know, they say all  
     :      >asses look the same.....
     :      -cristian 
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >You have to look carefully at the sphincter. If there are small 
     >grooves in the musculature, then it's you. If there are small slivers 
     >of wood there, then it's mine.
     
     i think you are mistaking me (cristian) with your favority "wrestling" 
     buddy (Cristian, the Mark(quis) of Sphincter).  however, the first 
     description applies to me as well.  
     
     i am only his little brother - and way nastier than him ;->
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >>ps: like your poetry, though.....<seriously>......how about some 
     >>more samples?.....
     >
     >Oh god, you shouldn't say this publicly. If we start to exhibit some 
     >mutual respect, we'll loose the SCR audience. Oh the hell with them, 
     >it's been a gas! I've got some scorch marks [Marks] on my butt to 
     >prove it.
     
     first, he didn't say that - i did.
     
     second, i indeed believe your butt is still flaming and 
     rosyred.....but what the hell, you seem to like it that way, 
     anyway.....;->
     
     third, i've heard he's busy sharpening that stake and devising new 
     ways of inserting it into your pleasure hole.
     
     Whooooeeeeeee........Viva los Culos Rojos!!!!!!
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
        
     >You light up my life. You are so good at flaming, 
     
     anytime, baby, aaaaanytime.....;-)
     
     don't tell anybody, but i've also got quite an arsenal of various 
     bullwhips and cat's nine tails.......have you ever experienced the 
     "gypsy crack"?
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >Romania would never need a nuclear reactor to light up the country 
     >with 100 watt bulbs if you would just move there and pass wind near 
     >the ploesti oil refineries (are they still running?)
     >-- 
     >Wally Keeler                                    Poetry
     >Creative Intelligence Agency                    is
     >Peoples Republic of Poetry                      Poetency
     
     don't worry, they're still using 30 Watts....;-)
     
     otoh, now i understand why canadians allow themselves the luxury of 
     lighting up their homes with 100+ watts bulbs.  i'm sure they have you 
     wired and connected to all of canada's nuclear reactors.
     
     but watch out, a small shortcircuit and.........
     
     -cristian (NOT CRISTIAN)