In article >,  (Istvan 
Szucs) says:
>
>| >Yes, and one of the best Kings of Hungary was Polish! 
>| 
>The only polish King I know of was Dobzse Ulaszlo, and he
>was NOT that good ;)

Yes, you're right. It's been a long time since I read up the history
books and I got my wires crossed about who's who in the various ethnic 
mixtures of the kings (and was actually thinking of another king entirely)
....I should check my facts more carefully before making statements like 
that! Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!

In article >,  (George
Szaszvari) wrote:

> In article >,
 (T. M. Lutas) says:
> 
> >At the start of schooling one does not have a real language. Developing a
> >language is one of the basic tasks of educating a child. A child is a 
> >child and does not have "Hungarian" or "Romanian" stamped on their
> >forehead on exit from the womb. In a truly ethnically blind society they
> >would continue to be treated the same. Separate language schooling is a 
> >recipe for differential treatment and differential rights.
> 
> I have to disagree.
> 
> 1) Language is first used in the home. The child learns about language 
> and life from the parents (other than in exceptional circumstances.) The 
> *stamped on the forehead* comment is a misleading red-herring. Family life 
> provides the real education of any child, based on my experience of having 
> worked in schools and junior organizations of many different types in 
> Britain for more than a decade. Schools provide the opportunity for study 
> in special subjects (mostly other than language) that the parents might 
> not otherwise be able to provide, or have the time to provide, plus the 
> possibilities for comradeship with other children of similar age. The 
> general successes demonstrated by home tutoring of children by educated 
> parents over the huge failure rate in educational systems world-wide 
> suggests that educational systems and schools still have a lot to learn 
> about education. 

There is a house language that parents do provide prior to entry into 
school. However, the great majority of a person's vocabulary is likely
to be learned at school, not at home. Technical terms outside the parent's
speciality and literary terms are much more likely to be picked up in 
school than at home. And if the home is a hungarian one, how is the 
child going to learn Romanian? How is that child going to avoid having
his prospects limited to his own minority community? There needs to be 
A certain amount of Romanian language instruction otherwise ghettoization
is going to occur and this is going to lead to friction and problems for
both our communities.

I do share your respect and admiration for the home schooling effort but
in a situation like Romania where the neo-communist government is engaged
in a perverse practice of national pauperization of anyone who is not a 
party member, home schooling is going to fall by the wayside sooner rather
than later. 

> 2) The *recipe for differential rights and treatment* comment reflects 
> only your perception, i.e., the need to conform (or the need for anything 
> different to be assimilated.) Do you betray your Ceaucescu era upbringing?

No, more probably my American upbringing. I came over to America when I
was two. My perceptions of bilingual education are more colored by the
abysmal failure here than communist propaganda. Bilingual education has
been a real disservice to hispanics here and has created rifts in American
society that did not have to be there. I would hate to see those rifts in
Romanian society. They just provide openings for the extremists on both
sides which I hope you agree with me would be a *bad thing*.

> Liberate your shackled mind! Free yourself and accept others (whoever 
> they may be) without fearing their differences!

I don't fear your differences, I fear miscommunication, the ghettoization
of hungarian minorities, the increasing use of the ethnic card in Romanian
politics, and most of all, any divisions between the people that allow
the communists to stay in power 1 day longer than necessary.

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
Coming soon!
the only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

I'm writting from Galicia, a country in the northwest of Spain, on the
17th of May we celebrate the day of the Galician Language and some
galician people from the Net community decided to create a special website
to celebrate this day.

We're looking for as  many translations as possible into any language of
this text written by the galician writer Alvaro Cunqueiro:

"I've wanted and still want the Galician language to last and live on,
because the durableness of our language is the only chance that we endure
as a nation. I've wanted Galician to live on and, besides the earthly
motherland, that homeland wich is both the land itself and our buried
ancestors- I hope that there will be this other homeland wich is our
language.
If I were to be praised someday after I die, when I am feeding the grass
of this land of ours, it could be done by writting on my gravestone "here
lies who with his work made Galicia last one thousand springs more"".

If you want to help us, please send the translation with your name and
e-mail (to publish on our web) to:



Thank you very much in advance

Xabier Canosa

Johanne L. Tournier  > wrote:
>
>I thought it was rather that one of the best kings of Poland was Hungarian!

Indeed, Bathory, unless you think Louis the Great (Ludwig in Polish).  
But he was Italian in the first place, anyway. We also gave them one of 
their favorite queens, the daughter of Louis the Great, known in Polish 
history as Jadwiga (Hedvig).
On the other hand, Poles helped us more in our wars of liberation than
we helped them.  All in all, we are about even. ;-)

Joe

In article >,  () says:

>Indeed, Bathory, unless you think Louis the Great (Ludwig in Polish).  
>But he was Italian in the first place, anyway. We also gave them one of 
>their favorite queens, the daughter of Louis the Great, known in Polish 
>history as Jadwiga (Hedvig).
>On the other hand, Poles helped us more in our wars of liberation than
>we helped them.  All in all, we are about even. ;-)

This was the one (Barthory) and some of it is, duh, coming back to me now;
good grief, I'm gonna have to revise my history, plough through those 
books again and cut down on the pints of Guinness! :-( but with so many 
monarchs of England/Scotland, France, Hungary, etc, to remember, data 
overload must have set in! :-)

Regards,

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!

In article > George Szaszvari,
 writes:
>This was the one (Barthory)

Somlyai Báthory István 1571-ben szerezte meg az erdelyi fejede-
lemseget, majd pedig a lengyel tront. Mindket orszagban viragkor
volt uralkodasa, bar teny hogy erdekes ficzko volt. Az ellenzeket
mind a ket helyen, perek nelkul, egyszeruen legyikoltatta. Mind a
ket orszagot elkepesztette egyszeru,  puritan, visszafogott elet-
modjaval.

Tamas

Louis B. Wooding > wrote to George Szaszvari:
>
>And I agree with you!  If you are interested in Romanian history, I can
>give you references.  There are so many versions, biased this way and
>that.  In 1988 or 89 I found in the library in Cocoa, Florida some
>books (or pamphlets) on Romania which were part of a series dealing
>with the history and geography.  On reading, I quite decided that the
>history given in these books would be that which I accept once and for
>all.  A fellow has to have something he believes in!
>
>They were published the Romanian Historical Studies, 1029 Euclid
>Avenue, Miami Beach, FL 33139.

Oh, excellent choice! That's my favorite historical research group, too!
Reading their publications is a must!  I especially liked the one from
somebody with the Hungarian name Fenyes, entitled "Hungary's struggle to
annihilate her national minorities", or something close to it.
I'm sure George would find the book eye opening, to say the least.

Joe

In article >,
Hermes1 > wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, T. M. Lutas wrote:

> > As for autonomy, I don't see this as viable either. The Hungarians would 
> > still be in the minority and feel miffed over this while there would be a 
> > tendency to lower the government monies that Transylvania receives while no
t
> > lowering the taxes they have to pay. 
> 
> I beg to disagree. Then there is authonomy and authonomy ! But what irks
> me the most is people ranting their prejudices. When it comes to
> government, small is beatifull !

I don't have a problem with that at all. But do you mean small government
as in a small geographic area of reach? Or do you mean small government as
in a well defined limited government that doesn't interfere in most people's
daily lives? 

I like the second and have grave doubts about the first. A small tyranny is
just as bad as a large one. And without major educational improvements in
civics Romania is going to have great long term problems with tyranny 
sprouting up in various forms including the tyranny of the majority.

> What makes you think that Romania would not be better governed &
> adminstered by small local governments that are more responsible and
> responsive to their constituencies ?  That would not preclude a leaner
> and meaner central government no enforce any 'Pax Romana' as needed !

Have you read the Romanian constitution? By the time you finish overhauling 
this document to make it even possible to devolve power to the local 
level you will have had to reshape the Romanian polity in such a radical
way that the devolution will not bring you that much additional benefit.
Just getting the necessary constitutional changes into effect would require
such a sea change in political thought patterns (in a positive way) that
the actual devolution might not be needed.

> It also bothers me greatly, that since the demise of the 'Stejarul de
> la Scornicesti' we have added more than a full ONE THIRD to the roster
> of our state employees,  a true bureaucratic stranglehold of the economy 
> & the taxpayer.  Yet some, even here on scr, keep writing rubish about
> the need for more programs and bigger government. Mindbogling from the
> already mindnumb ! 

I don't think we disagree with the need to downsize. But I think that you
overlook something, if you create a more powerful local government without
changing the whole zeitgeist of Romanian politics what you are going to 
have is more bureaucrats, not less. 

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
Coming soon!
the only net copy of the Romanian constitution in Romanian
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

In article >,
Peter Kovalszki  > wrote:
 wrote:
>> 
>> George Szaszvari > wrote:
>> >
>> >Yes, and one of the best Kings of Hungary was Polish!
>> 
>> Which one was that?
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>
>    Ulaszlo the First was Polish, died at Varna fighting the Turks, 
>loosing the battle; Ulaszlo the Second was Polish, but definitely not 
>the best, his son Lajos the Second died at Mohacs in 1526.  PK

If you carefully observe again George's statement, he did not only
mention Hungarian kings of Polish origin, but also characterized one of
them as "one of the best Kings".  Of course I knew about the
Ulaszlo/Wladislaws, but I havent known any of them as especially
outstanding.  That's why I asked the question.  Dying in battle may make
one a hero (ho"si halott), but hardly a great king, IMHO.  But since I
know next to nothing about those Ulaszlos, I am eagerly waiting for some
education from George.  I'm sure he is also eager to give it. ;-)

Joe

Hello,
I heard about an anual blues festival in Budapest called "Blues-a-pest".
Can anybody tell me the dates ?
Thanks in advance
Olaf

Internet: 

In article >,  () says:
>But since I know next to nothing about those Ulaszlos, I am eagerly waiting 
>for some education from George.  I'm sure he is also eager to give it. ;-)

Sorry, I'm as much a junior student in this field as you are. I could 
contribute much more to the Nazi-Soviet era of history (especially WWII, 
but I left the moderated WWII ng a while ago over a difference of opinion 
about their moderation policies.)

Regards,

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!

In article >, 
s.com (T.M.Lutas) says:
>
>There is a house language that parents do provide prior to entry into 
>school. However, the great majority of a person's vocabulary is likely
>to be learned at school, not at home. Technical terms outside the parent's
>speciality and literary terms are much more likely to be picked up in 
>school than at home. And if the home is a hungarian one, how is the 
>child going to learn Romanian? How is that child going to avoid having
>his prospects limited to his own minority community? There needs to be 
>A certain amount of Romanian language instruction otherwise ghettoization
>is going to occur and this is going to lead to friction and problems for
>both our communities.

Aren't you seeing school education through rose-tinted glasses? It is my 
experience in Britain that the vast majority of children are failed by the
state schooling system and learn very little. The impetus to learn comes
from the parents, usually. That schooling should have more of an influence 
is another debate, but I remain convinced that parental upbringing (or lack 
of it) determines how well (or badly) a growing person is equipped for later
life. I'm looking out of my window at the moment and can see and hear the 
kids playing football in the park: they're using the the vernacular of their
home/families/friends and it certainly isn't the language that is supposedly
taught in school by any stretch of the imagination!

>I do share your respect and admiration for the home schooling effort but
>in a situation like Romania where the neo-communist government is engaged
>in a perverse practice of national pauperization of anyone who is not a 
>party member, home schooling is going to fall by the wayside sooner rather
>than later. 

Okay, change *party members* for *privileged class*; is it any different
in essence?

[snip]
> My perceptions of bilingual education are more colored by the
>abysmal failure here than communist propaganda. Bilingual education has
>been a real disservice to hispanics here and has created rifts in American
>society that did not have to be there. I would hate to see those rifts in
>Romanian society. They just provide openings for the extremists on both
>sides which I hope you agree with me would be a *bad thing*.

I don't believe that language is the essence of the problems in the USA.
Anyway, Spanish was spoken in the south-west long before the drive west
brought English there. I'd say that Hispanics have a right to speak Spanish
if they want to. Similarly, Hungarian (and other languages) was spoken in 
Transylvania centuries before it ever became part of Romania, so I defend 
the right of Hungarians (and other non-Romanian speakers) to speak their 
own language in Romania. Blacks are overwhelmingly English speaking in the
USA, yet they have greater problems in US society than Hispanics, Koreans, 
Chinese, etc. The problem is caused by something else, trouble flares up
and then fingers start pointing at the apparent differences, usually 
overlooking the real underlying causes of the problem. Don't pander to
extremists by appeasing them...fight their darkness and ignorance with
enlightenment and REAL education.

>I don't fear your differences, I fear miscommunication, the ghettoization
>of hungarian minorities, the increasing use of the ethnic card in Romanian
>politics, and most of all, any divisions between the people that allow
>the communists to stay in power 1 day longer than necessary.

I would say that the onus is on the ethnic Romanians to deal with your 
fears; your argument puts the onus on ethnic groups in Romania to conform 
and be passively assimilated into a monolithic Romanian nation-state 
cultural identity. This is where we fundamentally differ. I believe diversity 
should be encouraged in Romania (and everywhere else): you believe others 
should conform, which is dangerous IMHO. You denounce communists, I denounce
all totalitarianism. (re: Albert Speer's memoirs...the psychological point 
of Nazi rallies was to achieve just this *oneness of identity*. In contrast,
someone like Akbar the Great and his golden Mughal rule encouraged diversity
thereby enriching all cultures through cross-fertilization and positive 
fusions, as opposed to repression of them.)

BTW didn't the Germans/Saxons of Brasov enjoy linguistic and cutural 
autonomy for a long time? 

Regards,

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!

>HUNGARIAN RADIO PREPARES FOR BELT-TIGHTENING. Hungarian Radio, currently
>facing severe financial difficulties, has drawn up a plan introducing
>austerity measures at the station, Hungarian dailies reported on 24
>April. Broadcasting is to be reduced on one of the three channels, and
>several programs will be cut on the other two. Honorariums will also be
>cut by 55%. 

In > )
Joe Pannonymous wrote:
|Typical from the burocrats: they cut back the service, instead of laying
                  ^^^^^^^^^\
                            The more appropoetic word is bureaucraps! 
                            or in your own tongue; butakrata!
|off some of their fellows.  So now the ratio of Radio employees per
|program hour will be even greater than before.


-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

This post has been redirected by  to also include
soc.culture.magyar where it might do some good. I leave the entire affair
without comment save to observe that the posting of inflammatory political
material from a military site is highly inappropriate and possibly illegal
use of taxpayer funds. The Lt. Col. can say anything he likes but he 
really ought to spend his own money doing it, not taking from the public
purse. It is particularly offensive to this Romanian-American to know that
I have contributed, in however so small a fashion to making his postings
possible.

DB

<<orig message from V. Ciuca>>

Motto: "Vulgus ex veritate pauca, ex opinione multa 
                    aestimat" ac "Salus omnium nostrum non veritate 
                    solum, sed etiam fama nititur".
                    CICERO, Rosc.Com.10,29, ac Quintilian, Fr.1,2,1&2.


        ARGUMENT

    In a very warlike style and in a known revisionist tradition, both 
approximates to those found into the extremist-ethnocentrist 
politicians rethorics, Lt.Col. Laszlo Varju recently said that the 
Romanians "immigrated to Transylvania much later". In order to sustain 
this enormous aberation, the same "corporal of history" said: 
"Archeological excavations proved this". Et punctum.

    Some people belonging to the Neo-Nazi and revisionist cercles in 
Hungary and abroad and some people among those 1.6 million Magyars 
from Romania sustain exactly the same propagandistic lies. Among those 
you can find: Albert Szabo, Krisztian Sermaul and Istvan Gyokros, 
founders and leaders of the Neo-Nazi "World National Popular Rule 
Party"(V.N.T.) became actually "Magyar Nepjoleti Szovetseg"(Hungarian 
Welfare Association, with more than 3000 active members in the country 
and abroad). 

    You can, also, find the same injurious ideas into the rethoric of 
the most prominent folkloric voice of Hungarian 
extremist-ethnocentrist mouvement, known under the name Istvan Czurka 
(right-winger Hungarian Justice and Life Party - M.I.E.P.).

    Mr. Laszlo Varju must has a great rushness (no courage, because 
the courage supposes a minimum of reason...) to assert the above 
stupid mentions. And more, because the archaeological proofs represent 
irrefutable arguments for the Daco-Romanian continuity in Transilvania 
and in the other Romanian historical provinces, even the most fierce 
Neo-Nazi and revisionist militants are refraining, reluctant to invoke 
the ARCHAEOLOGY. But, unfortunately for him an fortunately for us, Mr. 
Lt.Col in the USAF MC., Dr. Laszlo Varju (in the posting: @WHITSG 
01.MEDNET.AF.MIL.-Thu.Apr.18. 17:38:33 1996 on the 
soc.culture.romanian), he didn't help do not refrained. In Romania 
there is a proverb: "Each bird on its own language dies", even if the 
"bird" is a "doctor in science" (let's remember Moliere's "doctors in 
science"..., or, recently, the cynical conceptions exprimates by Mr. 
Dr. Aron Monus, another Hungarian savant, who garnered unanimous 
academical disdain by publishing Conspiracy Against Nietzsche's 
Empire, a foolish and injurious revisionist history of World War II, 
alleging that Jews paid Hitler to carry out the Holocaust...). 
Sometime and elsewhere it's very usual to perceive in this kind the 
history in the "Doctors'World", isn't it...?

    For all these revisionistic people, I try to reproduce here only 
some few examples, some archaeological proofs.


    I.TRANSYLVANIAN LOCALITIES AND GEOGRAPHIC INDICES IN THE 
TRANSYLVANIAN SPACE DURING THE DACIA TRAIANA'S PERIOD, ALL OF THESE 
ACCOMPANIED BY ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROOFS:

1.Sarmisegetusa Regia (Ulpia Traiana) = The Roman Imperial Province 
Capital of Dacia Traiana or Dacia Felix.
2.Napoca (modern, Cluj-Napoca) = colony.
3.Ulpianum (modern, Oradea Mare) on Crisia (modern, Cris) River = 
vicus/pajus (village).
4.Porolissum (modern, Moigrad) in Bihor = municipium and castrum 
(Roman camp with infantry troops - cohortes- and with cavalry troops - 
alae-).
5.Rucconium (modern, Ibrany), now in Hungary.
6.Partiscum (now, in Hungary).
7.Docidava (Dacidava?), near Crasna River = vicus/pajus.
8.V.Resculum, Optatiana, Alburnus Maior (modern, Rosia), Abruttus 
(modern, Abrud), Ampellum (modern, Zlatna), all = vicus/pajus, near 
Apuseni Montains.
9.Aqve (modern,Calan) = colony.
10.Petrae (modern, Petrila), Germisara, Burticum, Sacidava (modern, 
Miercurea Sibiului), Cedonie (near Sibiu), all = vicus/pajus.
11.Apulum (modern, Alba Iulia) = colony.
12.Potaissa or Potavissa (modern, Turda) = municipium.
13.Berzolis (modern, Berzovia), Apo (modern, Orastie), Potula, 
Canonia, Centum Putea, Caput Bubali, Argidava (Arcidava), Dierna, 
Lederata, Pincum, Viminacium, all = vicus/pajus.
14.Micia (modern, Vetel) = castrum (Roman camp).
15.Margum, Ad Pannonios (modern, Cornea), Pretoriae (modern, Plugova), 
Ad Mediam (modern, Mehadia), all = vicus/pajus.
16.V.Ans (Amensium) Regio on Samus (modern, Somes) River = 
vicus/pajus.
17.Arcobadara on Samus (modern, Somes) River = vicus/pajus.
18.Sangidava, Marcodava, Brucla (modern, Aiud), all = vicus/pajus.
19.Tibiscum (modern, Jupa, near Timisoara) = municipium.
20.Acmonia (modern, Zavoi), Mascilianus, Gaganis or Gazona (modern, 
Slatina) on Tibiscus (modern, Timis) River, all = vicus/pajus.
21.Caput Stenarum, Pons Vetus (modern, Caineni), Pretorium (modern, 
Cornetu), Arrutela, Castra Traiani (modern, Gura Vaii) on the Aluta or 
Alutus (modern, Olt) River, all = vicus/pajus.
22.Ziridava, Blandiana, Micia, Germisara, Oburticum, Marcodava on 
Maris (modern, Mures) River, all = vicus/pajus.
23.Angustia = castrum (Roman camp) on Ghimes Mountain Pass.
24.Comidava = castrum (Roman camp).
25.Ramidava, Triplentum, Patridava, Petrodava, Utidava, Pirum, in the 
eastern Carpathians, all = vicus/pajus etc.etc.etc.


    II. DACIAN NAMES FOR LOCALITIES AND GEOGRAPHIC FORMS (PRESERVED BY 
ROMANS) AFTER THE AURELIANUS AUGUSTUS'RETIREMENT OF SOME (NOT ALL, 
NOTA BENE!) LEGIONS IN 278 A.D.:

    A) Localities:

1.Napoca (modern, Cluj-Napoca).
2.Porolissum (modern, Moigrad).
3.Sarmizegetusa (modern, Sarmizegetuza).
4.Apulum (modern, Alba-Iulia).
5.Drobeta (modern, Drobeta Turnu-Severin).
6.Potaissa (modern, Turda).
7.Dierna.
8.Malva.

    B) The great rivers:

1.Dunaris (modern, Dunarea).
2.Aluta or Alutus (modern, Olt).
3.Maris (modern, Mures).
4.Argessos (modern, Arges).
5.Tisa (modern, Tisa).
6.Samus (modern, Somes).
7.Tibiscus (modern, Timis).


    III. SOME ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROOFS OF THE DACO-ROMANIAN CONTINUITY IN 
TRANSYLVANIA BETWEEN V-X CENTURIES A.D.:

1. The vax tablets (jurisdictio tabulae) from the gold mines at 
Alburnus Maior (modern, Rosia).
2.The composition of coins discoveries (all in the Latin language) in 
the V Century at Sarmizegetusa, at Orsova and Racajdia (in Banat), at 
Hunedoara, near Targu-Mures ant, in the northeast, near Dej.
3.The paleo-Christian vestiges, all, exclusively Romanians (V 
Century).
4.The stoneware and pottery objects in the central Transilvania, at 
Moresti and Bandul de Campie, that looks alike to those discovered at 
Sarata-Monteoru(the archaeological science type).
5.More than 50 (fifty) archaeological discoveries (VI-VII Centuries) 
being a reflexion of the autochton culture with Gepid influences 
(centrate in Pannonia); the generic type of those discoveries is 
called "Santana de Mures - Cerneahov" type, concerning the monnetary 
circulation, the Christian Romanian monuments (you know very well that 
the Slavs and the Gepids were pagans!) and the cemeteries.
6.The paleo-Christian pots lid (at Tibiscum, VI Century).
7.The Romanian settlements from Baltei (near modern Medias), Cipau 
(near modern Ludus), Taga (near modern Gherla), Soporu de Campie (V-VI 
Centuries).
8.The Christian bronze earthen lamp (rush-light) discovered at Dej 
(V-VI Centuries).
9.The "royal-feudalistic" citadel from Dabaca (near Gherla, on Samus - 
Somes- River); this citadel with palisade (!!!) of IX Century had 
belonged to Romanian Voivode Gelu (Blacus = Romanian in the Anonimus 
chronicle - Magister P.) and his ancestors.
10.The funeral stela from Casei.
11.The devotional cross found at Biertan is inscribed in Latin :"Ego 
Zenovius votum posui" (I, Zenovius, brought this offering).
12.Latin inscriptions found on a brick unearthed at Gornea (in the 
Banat) and on a bottom of a vessel at Porolissum (modern, Moigrad).
13.The autochtonous Romanian ninth and tenth Centuries artifacts 
discovered at Dabaca : pottery, beads and silver buttons.
14.The archaeological research has located the 20 (twenty) settlements 
in Menumorut's voivodate in Crisana (with the capital at Biharea, 
near, present day, Oradea) - X Century.
15.The archaeological researches had located the 60(sixty) settlements 
in Glad's voivodate in Banat (with the capital in Morisena, the modern 
Cenad) - X Century.
16.The archaeological researches had, also, located the 40 (fourty) 
settlements in Gelu's voivodate in central Transilvania (with the 
capital at Dabaca, near the modern Cluj-Napoca) - X Century.
17.The fortress of Satu-Mare (IX Century).
18.By the contrast, in central Transylvania, because the Magyars had 
neither the human resources (only ten tribes -onogur, ungur-) to 
maintain "such a impressive, by extention, conquest, whose territory 
ranged from Moravia and Croatia to the western Transilvania", nor the 
organizational capacity, the ARCHAEOLOGICAL REMAINS FROM THE TENTH 
CENTURY ARE EXTREMELY RARE IN TRANSILVANIA. Only in the fourth quarter 
of XI Century those became observable...You know very well the 
reason...


    IV. Without conclusions.

    The other ideas (in fact, enormous voluntarly mistakes) sustained 
by Mr. "corporal of history" in that article are so hillarious than 
it's not even necessarly to evocate them here.It's the foolish result 
of the "mind eyes science" or of the super possessive imagination of 
some "doctors"...


    Valerius M.Ciuca, r.f.,N.D.Univ.,U.S.A.

In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>Joe Pannonymous wrote:
>|Typical from the burocrats: they cut back the service, instead of laying
>                  ^^^^^^^^^\
>                            The more appropoetic word is bureaucraps!
>                            or in your own tongue; butakrata!
>|off some of their fellows.  So now the ratio of Radio employees per
>|program hour will be even greater than before.
>Wally Keeler

Wally, we already know you need English lessons and you can't spell, so you
don't have to prove it again! Stay on SCR, that's a good level for your brain 
(or the lack of it).
GK

T. Kocsis > wrote:
|I only write some tipical words of the five geniuses to characterize them.
|south - cheerful, serene life ideal | Berzsenyi belongs to here.
|west - cultivatedness and social balance | Szecheny is tipical.
|north - closeness to nature, sensitivity | Hamvas put Petofi here
|east -  yearning for freedom
|Erdely - intricate richness
|
|Hamvas says that an average european only has to unit and con-
|ciliate to form his/her individuality. We have five such geniuses
|and three of them ( east, west, erdely) are very difficult to
|reconcile. Only the five together form a full hungarian psyche, full
|magyar personality. (Jokai, Csokonay seems to manage that)

Each genius seems to designate a particular cultural configuration. One's
personality is a result of growing up within a particular culture -- mind
set, values, etc. For centuries this was fine because travel was restricted
to walking and the horse up until the current century. If the suicide rate
was low in Hungary's past, perhaps it was because there was little exposure
to the assorted geniuses. This lent itself to stability of character. With
the advent of cars, radio, tv, the exposure of the assorted geniuses to one
another increased along with the need to reconcile what a Hungarian was.
The suggestion is that Hungarians suffer from an identity crisis.

Canada's native people may suffer from this same sort of phenomenon. The
Natives suffered from an assortment of benign neglect, apartheidism,
assimilation, at the hands of the colonizers. Over two hundred years,
Anglo-Franco culture dominated and the Native cultures had no way to
maintain their own distinctiveness. Now we have a situation where it is
impossible for a Native to fully live the Native way as did his ancestors.
Lakes and rivers are polluted. Urban development. Tv. Radio. Movies. There
are very few left who are sustaining themselves from hunting, fishing,
trapping and leading a nomadic way of life. This "cultural genocide" has
been an important contributing factor to the high suicide rate.

(Economic conditions and poverty are non-starters as a causitive factor --
suicide rates are higher in more economically advanced countries than in
third world countries. And there are no studies which have determined that
suicide is more likely to occur among the lower economic class than among the
middle or upper class).

Canadians have always had an identity "crisis". It differs from the immigrant
society to our south where the process of assimilation prevails, rather
than Canada's general policy of integration, not assimilation. Canada has
no fixed identity -- never has. (I personally like this very much. In July
1985, there was considerable disdain when I spoke at the Schoeffer Seminarium
in the city of Kalosca -- there was a Hungarian cultural assembly there of
many of Hungary's creme de la creme of the avante garde -- and expressed my
personal delight that I had no cultural history, no cultural identity. I
expressed it as freedom. Canada is in a perpetual state of becoming.) 

The cohesiveness of Canada as a country is in some doubt, what with Quebec
posturing for sovreignty, and within Quebec, the Cree and Inuit, posturing
that they can also be sovereign. (Very interesting) However, it has not
lead to higher rates of suicide. Perhaps this could be explained away by
the fact that Canadians have never had a genius to begin with, so they are
starting with a clean slate. It is not a matter of reconciling to anything
-- it is a matter of personal adjustments within the world's first post-modern
state. 

|The problem with these geniuses, that if they are not reconciled they
|become demonical because the geniuses are archeotipical qualities. It
|results the tipical Hungarian irrational hatred to each other. 

Ok, so we have groups in conflict with each other. Is this a recent cultural
phenomenon (20th century) or has this "irrational hatred" been a long term
historical feature? I have not heard of this 5 genius postulate and it is very
interesting. It would seem that a prima facie case has been made which
concludes that Hungary's high suicide rate is a cultural manifestation and if
this is the case, then suicide and goulash go together as easily as mom and
apple pie.


-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

In article >, T. Kocsis > says:

>Somlyai Báthory István 1571-ben szerezte meg az erdelyi fejede-
>lemseget, majd pedig a lengyel tront. Mindket orszagban viragkor
>volt uralkodasa, bar teny hogy erdekes ficzko volt. Az ellenzeket
>mind a ket helyen, perek nelkul, egyszeruen legyikoltatta. Mind a
>ket orszagot elkepesztette egyszeru,  puritan, visszafogott elet-
>modjaval.

Tamas

Nagyon koszonom kedvesseget a somyali Bathory Istvant illetoleg.

George

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Acorn..RISC OS * IBM PeeCee..PCDOS..Win-OS/2 * NW London Computer Club
 ICPUG..Commodore=64 ** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

On 24 Apr 1996, Hujber, Giza wrote:

> Budapest Bank has a branch in Gyor.
> 
> Address: Bajcsy-Zsilinszky str. 18.
> 	 H-9021 GYOR
> 
> Tel:	 36 96 326444
> Fax: 	 36 96 326555
> 
> They have ATM access. The ATM accepts any EC/MC card.
> 
> >BTW, how many digits/characters do ATMs in Hungary require?  4? 5?  I don't 
know what do you mean, but the PIN code is 4 digit in Hungary.
> 
> Geza Hujber, Gyor
> 
> 
>

Hi!

	I am from Toronto, Canada!
	I would like to correspond with hungarians preferably from Canada, 
	but it reaaly does not matter from where...

	If interested, e-mail back...

	Bye, Attila :)

T.M. Lutas ) with the ourageously provocative
 subject (Transilvania  was,is and would be romanian province) discusses 
the situation of  hungarian minority in Romania. Most of hungarians which 
have a  minimal level of selfesteem could not be a partner in this discussion. 
The exception I am making in this case is due to the quite important problem of
 
language 
barriiers between two nations raised in his letter.  

T.M.L.( Or DB)) wrote:  
"A certain amount of Romanian language instruction otherwise ghettoization
is going to occur and this is going to lead to friction and problems for
both our communities....  Bilingual education has been a real disservice to 
hispanics here and has created rifts in American society that did not have to 
be there. I would hate to see those rifts in Romanian society. They just provid
e
 openings for the extremists on both sides which I hope you agree with me would
 
be a *bad thing*...    I don't fear your differences, I fear miscommunication, 
the ghettoization of hungarian minorities, the increasing use of the ethnic car
d
in Romanian politics, and most of all, any divisions between the people that 
allow the communists to stay in power 1 day longer than necessary."

 Comment: 
There is a very good recipe to avoid "ghettoization" of hungarian minority, or 
division between
the peoples in Transylvania. Just simply hungarians must learn romanian languag
e
in hungarian
schools, and romanians must do the similar thing in their schools - they should
 
learn hungarian! I
bet it is very unexpected idea for  all who are using the above mentioned 
Subject.
They never thought about that! Romanian is considered to be a privileged 
language and,
consequently, romanian people should be a priviliged one too. That is why one 
can not find many
rumanians in Transylvania who can speak hungarian!  And this way (as I propose 
here ) civilized
countries in similar situations are trying to solve the very sensitive issue of
 
language. But to
achieve that Transylvania should gain the autonomy which would imply obligation
s
for 
romanians too (at least to learn hungarian language). 
 Southern California has much in common in this sense with Transylvania. Both 
regions were
conquered and, similarly to Transylvania, the local minority ( mostly mexicans)
 
are in the same
ratio (1:3-4) to the  majority. Now, you must know that  in public service both
 
languages are
being used equally, mexicans have  several TV and radio programs in spanish, 
etc. Both languages
are official ones!  Moreover, for mexicans the English is not mandatory! 
Therefore, learning
spanish here is quite common among non-mexican americans (otherwise you can't 
find job). And 
this policy has a very favorable effect: mexicans do not feel to be outsiders o
n
their native land!
Hungarians of Transylvania and other neighbor countries also deserve at least 
this "privilige"!
i.f.

R0498 wrote:
> 
> In Malay "I love you" would be
> " Aku Chinta Padamu"


Sij laigalaw mako shighil

GET A LIFE PEOPLE